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Float RP23 pro pedal

sofaboy73sofaboy73 Posts: 574
edited June 2013 in MTB workshop & tech
I tend to run my shock fairly soft at c 30% sag on 160 travel.that with the vpp suspension on the bike and my 14 stone of pie based jollity means that the bike feels a little too wallowy some times on the climbs when the pro pedal is on fully open (0). However there is no decernable difference when I set it to it's firmest (3) on the climbs when I would expect it to prop the back end up a bit. Infact ended up doing a decent on the firmest setting as forgot to change it and couldn't really tell the difference.

Not had an rp23 with selectable pro pedal options before, should I notice the difference (ie is the shock not functioning properly) or is it a bit of marketing hype? Is there anything I can do to prop the back end up for the climbs apart from reducing sag?

Posts

  • ilovedirtilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    I found this recently when I used an RP23 for the same time, tried a couple of mates bikes with them fitted as well, and yeah, they're shite.
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    Yeah i found the same

    I got mine Pushed. Made a massive diff to the shock. Now i dont even lock it out as the pedal platform they put in is so good.
  • sofaboy73sofaboy73 Posts: 574
    DCR00 wrote:
    Yeah i found the same

    I got mine Pushed. Made a massive diff to the shock. Now i dont even lock it out as the pedal platform they put in is so good.

    was thinking about this.

    after doing a bit more digging on the net, the low speed compression dampening via the pro-pedal on the rp23 seems to be prone to failure due to some cheap neumatic valve or another they use (all got a bit techy). from having a look on TF's site they seem to replace these parts for higher quality and then tailor the dampening via shims??

    did it really make that much firrfferance when you had it done then? and in what aspects?
  • BG2000BG2000 Posts: 517
    More info on the Push update please....e.g. costs etc..

    My RP23 is only 4 months old, very plush, but I've never noticed any difference between the blue lever settings either. Could this be due to an efficient 'pedal friendly' suspension design though ? (latest Giant Trance X frame)
  • sofaboy73sofaboy73 Posts: 574
    BG2000 wrote:
    More info on the Push update please....e.g. costs etc..

    My RP23 is only 4 months old, very plush, but I've never noticed any difference between the blue lever settings either. Could this be due to an efficient 'pedal friendly' suspension design though ? (latest Giant Trance X frame)

    Have a look at the TF tuned website, everything you need is on there. £143 to get it pushed & serviced (ie £40 more than a normal service)
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    sofaboy73 wrote:
    DCR00 wrote:
    Yeah i found the same

    I got mine Pushed. Made a massive diff to the shock. Now i dont even lock it out as the pedal platform they put in is so good.

    was thinking about this.

    after doing a bit more digging on the net, the low speed compression dampening via the pro-pedal on the rp23 seems to be prone to failure due to some cheap neumatic valve or another they use (all got a bit techy). from having a look on TF's site they seem to replace these parts for higher quality and then tailor the dampening via shims??

    did it really make that much firrfferance when you had it done then? and in what aspects?

    I replaced the supplied X Fusion shock with an OEM RP23. Unsurprisingly it didn’t perform very well; lots of pedal bob, lack of traction when out of the saddle, so I sent it off to TF.

    They called me and had a chat about the type of riding I do, how much I weigh, the type of bike etc. We then talked through what I wanted from the shock. The guy I spoke to had some great suggestions, and we went for a high level of low speed compression with a bottom out bumper (due to my weight).

    It was like a different shock when it came back. Pedal bob virtually eliminated, but then very plush when it hits something i.e. best of both worlds. The drawback is that the pro-pedal adjuster effectively becomes defunct, but when you have a decent pedal platform, who cares. I rarely use the lockout now. Set it at 20% sag and get on with it.

    It’s not a cheap upgrade really, especially when you have just spent £400 on the shock, but it was well worth it, and it opened my eyes to the benefits of spending some time, effort and money getting your suspension right.

    Worth considering that if you need a full service i.e. not just an air can service, you will have to send it to TF, but they will replace any deformed shims FOC.
  • sofaboy73sofaboy73 Posts: 574
    cheers for the feedback DC

    sounds like could be a winner. don't really get much pedal bob (rarely get out of the saddle though - if i can't sit and grind it out I push!) and traction is pretty good although does seem to stall a little too easily on a square edge hit when climbing. issue for me is it sits so low in the stroke when climbing an wallows a little so need the back end propping up whilst climbing but without loosing the suplleness on single track and descending. Not and issues re the propedal as mine does nothing at the moment anyway.

    have checked out TF website and will give them a bell
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    Tuning should improve traction and compliance, but it wont sort the stroke problem. What you describe is a sag issue. If your sag is set at 30% then the shock will sit further into its travel. Only way aorund this would be to use the lockout (or use less sag)
  • sofaboy73sofaboy73 Posts: 574
    DCR00 wrote:
    Tuning should improve traction and compliance, but it wont sort the stroke problem. What you describe is a sag issue. If your sag is set at 30% then the shock will sit further into its travel. Only way aorund this would be to use the lockout (or use less sag)

    i understand reducing the sag / increasing the psi would sort the problem, however c 30% works very well on the bike for the riding i do with the vpp suspension on the singletrack / descents (appreaciate it's all a compromise though). On the RP23 there isn't a lock out, only the 3 propedal / low speed compression settings, and its these that i'm having issues with ie the firmest is no different to fully open.

    whilst i don't get a lot of pedal bob, whilst climing there are obviously increased forces acting on low speed compressio, therefore magnifying any bob / wallow there is leading to a feeling that the shock is sucking away a lot of the energy input. What i'm wanting to do is change the nature of the LSC dampening to mitigate this mid stroke wallow as much as possible primarily (ie, get the propedal to do what it's meant to).

    are you saying that this can't be achieved by push'ing it? I thought the whole point of it was to change the nature of the dampening to sort your bike / riding style? or am i getting the wrong end of the luddite stick?
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    No sorry its me getting the wrong end of the stick

    Tuning should address these issues assuming TF can tune the shock so it holds it LSC into the stroke

    I was forgetting that some RP23 dont have the option for lockout. Mine has the adaptive logic settings, which mean you can set the level of platform, but also lockout if you see fit. Im guessing yours is the model before this one ?

    have you tried a a higher sag setting ? if so, what did it do to the bike ? (interested as im wrestling with getting a VPP frame)
  • sofaboy73sofaboy73 Posts: 574
    DCR00 wrote:
    No sorry its me getting the wrong end of the stick

    Tuning should address these issues assuming TF can tune the shock so it holds it LSC into the stroke

    I was forgetting that some RP23 dont have the option for lockout. Mine has the adaptive logic settings, which mean you can set the level of platform, but also lockout if you see fit. Im guessing yours is the model before this one ?

    have you tried a a higher sag setting ? if so, what did it do to the bike ? (interested as im wrestling with getting a VPP frame)

    unsure where my rp23 fits into the range / chronologically. it came as stock on the frame (nomad c), but its the one with the boost valve / high volume air can / kashima coating (which i'm not sure really does anything) / 3 setting propedal (which definitely doesn't do anything apart from mildly irritate me that it doesn't work).

    yeh, spent quite a lot of time playing around with the sag setting when i first built the bike as the vpp is pretty sensitive to any set up change. unlike my old single pivot heckler (with a float r) where, as long as you were somewhere near the correct sag, the handling / ride characteristics were uniform, the VPP is noticeably different just a few psi either way. This sounds like a bit of a faff and it does take a little while to hit the sweet spot, but i like that it's that responsive - ie what goes in comes out and isn't lost somewhere in a vague suss platform.

    as to VPP as a platform, i love it. as i say, was on a single pivot heckler before that (a little agricultural in it's suspension) and a trek ex8 with evolink suspension (plusher than the heckler). i've also ridden a few of my mates bikes including commies overly complicated linkages and giants which they seem to change on a regular basis. Out of all of them VPP wins hands down for me

    i'm not one to get immersed in axle path diagrams (or understand them for that matter), so can only comment on real world experience of it, but if find it very supple, doesn't get out of line or suffer from brake jack, very responsive and composed. it's meant to suffer from chain growth but i've never noticed it. overall it's an awful lot of fun on the alongs & down and only fractionally less efficient on the climbs. That said, it's very difficult to separate platform / frame / shock, but i've been very happy with it.

    it does do one slightly odd thing though. every now and again (once every 3 - 4 rides, usually seems to be at the start of descents) the back end squirrels around under you a bit for 10 seconds or so. easiest way to explain it is that it feels like the first 10 seconds or so when you get a rear flat when your riding and the rear wheel plays side to side. now there isn't any lateral play in the design so i have no idea what causes it. sounds like an issue, but really isn't, just nit picking.

    the VPP does cause shocks to sit low in stroke (hence partly the above queries), but i know the problems i've been having (again mainly nit picking and wanting to get the 'perfect' ride) are shock related as my mate got the same bike with a coil on it and doesn't have the same issue.

    what are you looking at??
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    Mine is the adaptive logic version. Last of the high volume shocks before Fox moved to CTD (i think). Interestingly TF told me that the high volume shocks don't tune as well as the smaller volume ones...

    I keep toying with swapping out my Spesh frame with something with more travel at the back. Current fave is an Intense Tracer, but I've just bought a new house, so i don't know if i can justify spending £1800 on a new frame....
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