Cyclists don't pay road tax?

CptKernow
CptKernow Posts: 467
edited June 2013 in Road general
My main objection to this argument is not whether it exists etc, but that I, and probably most other cyclists do.

I have a car, it isn't even a small car. Therefore I pay more "road tax" than many of the people citing this argument.

I expect most of the people on this forum also have a car. There we go then. Cyclists do pay road tax
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Comments

  • mpatts
    mpatts Posts: 1,010
    There is no such thing as road tax. Argument over!
    Insert bike here:
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    isnt it all based on emissions these days anyway so as I don't produce too many greenhouse gasses (depending on what was on the menu the night before anyway!) i'd say If i was a car i'd be road tax free anyway!

    i reckon i'd be comfortably in band A

    http://www.nextgreencar.com/car-tax/bands.php#q1
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • These idiot drivers should note that road tax was abolished in 1937. Vehicle excise duty (VED) isn't really a tax used to used to build and maintain roads anyway!

    Not to mention that cars with low-emissions are exempt from VED also. Are these morons shouting obscenities out of their windows at Prius drivers also? 8)
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    I wish ppl would drop the "Road tax doesn't exist" argument - it's a pedantic point as "Road Tax" is a commonly used name for Vehicle Excise Duty. If you search for "UK road tax" the top link is a uk gov page relating to VED.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    Not to mention that cars with low-emissions are exempt from VED also.

    This. The end.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • owenlars
    owenlars Posts: 719
    I think the car user argument is, however you look at it, to drive a particular vehicle on a road the overwhelming majority have to have paid some money for that particular vehicle. To ride a bike on a road you don't have to have paid any money. Whether any of that is relevant or not is a matter of opinion.

    However what is certain is that any scheme to 'licence' bicycles would cost a fortune, be almost totally unenforceable and provide no identifiable benefit. On top of that if low emission vehicles are exempt then that includes bikes!
  • Mhust be a slow day on the forum.....
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • andy9964
    andy9964 Posts: 930
    smidsy wrote:
    Not to mention that cars with low-emissions are exempt from VED also.

    This. The end.
    Exactly.
    I dont pay VED on my bike, and I don't pay VED for my car

    Does that make me more evil :twisted:
  • NewTTer
    NewTTer Posts: 463
    CptKernow wrote:
    My main objection to this argument is not whether it exists etc, but that I, and probably most other cyclists do.

    I have a car, it isn't even a small car. Therefore I pay more "road tax" than many of the people citing this argument.

    I expect most of the people on this forum also have a car. There we go then. Cyclists do pay road tax
    This has been done to death and back already, why start another thread
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    CptKernow wrote:
    My main objection to this argument is not whether it exists etc, but that I, and probably most other cyclists do.

    I have a car, it isn't even a small car. Therefore I pay more "road tax" than many of the people citing this argument.

    I expect most of the people on this forum also have a car. There we go then. Cyclists do pay road tax
    But but but.

    The argument shouldn't be that you do pay, it's that no-one has to pay to use the roads. Going for the 'I do pay' counter-argument as a response to the terminally-dim suggests agreement with the original concept, that you haven't paid therefore you shouldn't be on the road.

    We're all free to use the roads. How govt chooses to pay for them is neither here nor there, everyone has a right to make use of the roads without any corresponding requirement to pay, either directly or indirectly. Pointing out that you do pay is tacit agreement that it is necessary to pay to use the roads.
  • TakeTurns
    TakeTurns Posts: 1,075
    Money collected from council tax goes towards the local roads/infrastructure. So unless you're really rich to avoid tax, or a student like me, you pay 'road maintenance tax' which is inclusive in council tax!
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Slowbike wrote:
    I wish ppl would drop the "Road tax doesn't exist" argument - it's a pedantic point as "Road Tax" is a commonly used name for Vehicle Excise Duty. If you search for "UK road tax" the top link is a uk gov page relating to VED.

    Thanks Slowbike. Thats exactly what I would have written if you hadn't already.
    I wouldn't have abbreviated people though. (just to be pedantic) :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    <sigh>
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • TomOdell
    TomOdell Posts: 33
    some cars don't pay the duty. if the ignorant motorist used that argument, they should want zero emission cars off the road too
  • edhornby
    edhornby Posts: 1,780
    with the exception of the motorways (direct gov budget), all roads are paid for by the council so if you pay council tax then you pay for roads
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    I was thinking the other day when this was in the press and filling the radio call ins for the umpteenth time,as its an emissions tax, why not just call it Vehicle Emission Duty now.

    then you dont have to keep explaining to people what excise or road tax is anymore or why its graded the way it is, the clue is in the name, its based on emissions.
  • mr_poll
    mr_poll Posts: 1,547
    Slowbike wrote:
    I wish ppl would drop the "Road tax doesn't exist" argument - it's a pedantic point as "Road Tax" is a commonly used name for Vehicle Excise Duty. If you search for "UK road tax" the top link is a uk gov page relating to VED.

    Thanks Slowbike. Thats exactly what I would have written if you hadn't already.
    I wouldn't have abbreviated people though. (just to be pedantic) :D

    Disagree here, it is the common use of road tax that fuels the entitlement of the ill informed motorist, I pay tax for the road these guys don't, get em off the road. The media and advertisers (bloody Fiat in an ad with Geraint Thomas last year made a huge thing of free ROAD TAX with their cars) add to this myth, I don't think it is pedantic to make this argument to ppl/people and correct the media so they hopefully stop perpetuating the myth.
  • Lycra-Byka
    Lycra-Byka Posts: 292
    Slowbike wrote:
    I wish ppl would drop the "Road tax doesn't exist" argument - it's a pedantic point as "Road Tax" is a commonly used name for Vehicle Excise Duty. If you search for "UK road tax" the top link is a uk gov page relating to VED.

    A vacuum cleaner is commonly called or labeled a 'hoover' even though it is not in fact, a Hoover. Just because it's commonly accepted as a name or description of a vacuum cleaner, it does not make it a Hoover. If think....that makes sense on some level.

    It WAS tax. That was abolished.

    We now have Vehicle Excise Duty.
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Lycra-Byka wrote:

    It WAS tax. That was abolished.

    We now have Vehicle Excise Duty.

    So what you are saying here is that an excise duty is not a tax?


    "excise duty
    Web definitions
    An excise or excise tax (sometimes called a duty of excise or a special tax) may be defined broadly as an inland tax on the production...
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excise_duty"





    'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet'
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    mr_poll wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    I wish ppl would drop the "Road tax doesn't exist" argument - it's a pedantic point as "Road Tax" is a commonly used name for Vehicle Excise Duty. If you search for "UK road tax" the top link is a uk gov page relating to VED.

    Thanks Slowbike. Thats exactly what I would have written if you hadn't already.
    I wouldn't have abbreviated people though. (just to be pedantic) :D

    Disagree here, it is the common use of road tax that fuels the entitlement of the ill informed motorist, I pay tax for the road these guys don't, get em off the road. The media and advertisers (bloody Fiat in an ad with Geraint Thomas last year made a huge thing of free ROAD TAX with their cars) add to this myth, I don't think it is pedantic to make this argument to ppl/people and correct the media so they hopefully stop perpetuating the myth.

    Disagree with you there :)
    It's ignorance, low IQ(sometimes) and a general inability/unwillingness to see other ppl's point of view that is the problem.

    Whatever way you dress it up a cycle is a vehicle that is exempt from VED/Road tax.

    Pedantic nit picking over terminology is not going to win hearts and minds IMO
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    I had exactly this argument whilst out for a ride this morning. I'd been riding along Southend seafront but not using the cycle lane (what a bastard I am!!) mainly because of the council vechiles parked up in them doing bin collecting. Anyway at a set of traffic lights I had an eejit in an Audi shouting at me for not using the bike lane and not paying road tax, so I pointed out about the bin collectors and then as luck would have it a 1960's Ford Cortina pulled alongside so I said "Why not ask the man here if he pays road tax?" to which of course the answer is he doesn't so why don't you tell him to get off the road he doesn't pay for as he takes up much more space than a cyclists!!! He declined my kind offer. There are some eejits out there.
  • crescent
    crescent Posts: 1,201
    edited May 2013
    With regards to VED, cycling is effectively a tax free method of travel that is open to anyone. If it annoys motorists so much that they have to pay "road tax" then buy a bike or an exempt car and travel VED free. Some motorists don't seem to grasp that they are not specifically excluded from tax-free travel and that they do have a choice, no one forces them to drive a vehicle that qualifies for tax/duty.
    For the record I am also a motorist and pay VED on my vehicle - my choice.
    Bianchi ImpulsoBMC Teammachine SLR02 01Trek Domane AL3“When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. “ ~H.G. Wells Edit - "Unless it's a BMX"
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Crescent wrote:
    With regards to VED, cycling is effectively a tax break that is open to anyone.
    Er ... no ...

    An electric or historic vehicle with £0 VED is a tax break. You do not need a permit to take a pushbike on the road ergo it is NOT a tax break, there just isn't any tax associated with it.
    Otherwise you could say anything we don't pay tax on is a tax break ... swimming in the sea, walking in the country, breathing ....
  • crescent
    crescent Posts: 1,201
    FTFY
    I don't know what I was thinking :oops:
    Bianchi ImpulsoBMC Teammachine SLR02 01Trek Domane AL3“When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. “ ~H.G. Wells Edit - "Unless it's a BMX"
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Crescent wrote:
    FTFY
    I don't know what I was thinking :oops:
    :)
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I've been looking on the Ford website recently and a good proportion of their Fiesta range has emissions rated below 100g/km, and so don't pay road tax either - As it is I do but only £20 per year.
  • rpherts
    rpherts Posts: 207
    As my car is in band K, three from the highest, does that mean people in lower banded cars have to get out of the way when I use the road?

    Also all cars should pull over when HGVs come up behind them, as they pay a fortune (UK registered anyway).

    All in all, it's a crap argument and they haven't got a leg to stand on.
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    rpherts wrote:
    and they haven't got a leg to stand on.

    In that case they'll be tax exempt then :mrgreen:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • gavbarron
    gavbarron Posts: 824
    Lycra-Byka wrote:
    It WAS tax. That was abolished.

    We now have Vehicle Excise Duty.

    It doesn't help that it is still called a Tax Disc though. Both on the V11 reminder you get through the post and on the gov website
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Well there's talk of abolishing the 'tax disc' itself to save money, since it's effectively useless as it's all done from numberplates now anyway.