Ultegra Brakes - Worth upgrading?

supermurph09
Posts: 2,471
Currently own a Cube Agree GTC Race with an Ultegra / 105 mix. The brakes are listed as "Shimano BR-R561", its an area of the bike that I think can be improved. Official pics are shown below.
I spotted these on Wiggle
for £44.99 which seems like a good price, would certainly look better than the ones I have. Would like to know if the stopping power is improved?

I spotted these on Wiggle



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Comments
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The pads and tyres are the limiting factor on stopping distance.
I can't see you getting any improvement in performance.0 -
I could tell the difference between 6700 Ultegra and 7900 DA - the 9000 DA are even better.
As per previous comments the pads make a big difference - always use Swissstop0 -
Not considered new pads on their own. Might be worth trying those first.
These?? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... ound-pads/Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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Those will be a vast improvement in modulation, power and build quality over those cheap ones that come with your Cube. all in all a very sound upgrade! Good brakes do make you go faster!0
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chrisvanderkaap wrote:Those will be a vast improvement in modulation, power and build quality over those cheap ones that come with your Cube. all in all a very sound upgrade! Good brakes do make you go faster!
See thats the kind of "get the damn things ordered now" response I needed!Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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setting up the brakes properly in the first place is more important than the sticker on the caliper.0
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chris1967cycling wrote:I could tell the difference between 6700 Ultegra and 7900 DA - the 9000 DA are even better.
As per previous comments the pads make a big difference - always use Swissstop
I have the long reach 105 equivalents on my fixed gear commuter and had DA 7700 regular reach calipers coupled to DA 7800 STIs on my Felt F3.
I recently upgraded my groupset on the felt to DA 7970 Di2 and DA7900 brake calipers and I really believe the brakes feel much more powerful. It may be a combination of lever pull ratio and calipers, I don't know. Plus a stiffer, less flexible caliper.
I'm puting DA 9000 front brake on my new P5 TT bike. As I want to use the Di2 brake shifters, so I'm not using the Magura TT8 hydraulics at the moment (but I have them in a box)0 -
solboy10 wrote:setting up the brakes properly in the first place is more important than the sticker on the caliper.
When you say setup, what adjustments could I make?Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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For me things like the correct amount of travel on the levers which translates to greater pressure being applied to the rim and the angle or toe in of the pads makes a huge difference. i have unbranded callipers on my bike and they work better than the 105 brakes on my old bike and that is because i experimented with the set up and got it spot on. if i upgrade anything on the brakes it will be the pads not the callipers.0
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Aren't the shimano Br-651 long reach brakes anyway, as in 57mm drop instead of 49mm drop?x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
gabriel959 wrote:Aren't the shimano Br-651 long reach brakes anyway, as in 57mm drop instead of 49mm drop?
Yes, they are. OP - your pics indicate that you may need the long reach, which the Ultegras aren't.
I tried to upgrade my unbranded brakes (on a different bike) with short drops only to discover that I needed long drops.0 -
there are ultegra long drops available too. but they arent badged ultegra. cant recall the number but they are silver.0
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Supermurph09 wrote:I spotted these on Wiggle
for £44.99 which seems like a good price,
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Bear in mnd that price is for only one caliper, not the pair. Not such a bargain tbh.0 -
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Really appreciate the input. Obviously not just a straight forward swap, which I hadn't realise. I'll give some more thought. The ones from Ribble, is that for a pair?Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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Yes mate they are a great price from ribble I paid 80 from crc for mine. Cracking brakeset for the money and the best long reach ones I could find.0
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My finger is hovering above the go button. Will have another look at them.Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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mmm, I have just found out that there are 2 types of Shimano BR-R561 and one are long reach and the other standard reach?! so you might still be ok with normal brakes!x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
gabriel959 wrote:Aren't the shimano Br-651 long reach brakes anyway, as in 57mm drop instead of 49mm drop?
I think so too... confusing names though.'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.0 -
paul_mck wrote:there are ultegra long drops available too. but they arent badged ultegra. cant recall the number but they are silver.
Shimano R650 I think.
Also have a look at Merlin Cycles before you buy - they have some great prices at the moment.'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.0 -
Just change the pads, fit decent cables and adjust them properly. That should be enough to give a decent improvement. Your braking power is limited on a bike by the grip given by the tyre anyway.Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?
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As others have mentioned new pads will make the biggest difference in braking power. Swisstop or Koolstop Salmons would be my first two choices. Also changing your brake cable and housing to the "Jagwire Racer" kit will give you noticeably firmer feel without emptying your wallet. Both of these cost less than new calipers and if you do decide to upgrade then you can still use the pads and cables on the new brakes.0
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Supermurph09 wrote:My finger is hovering above the go button. Will have another look at them.
Hi Murph,
I had the same brakes on my cube and recently purchased some Ultegra brakes, front from Wiggle and Rear from CRC & fitted them with no issues. To be fair i didnt notice anything in terms of performance but they look so much nicer -so purely from an aesthetic point of view I would buy! 8)Best - Cube Litening Super HPC
Winter - Felt F85,
Nippers - Cube Princess 160
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Cheers for replies. Had my first crash today going down a 20% gradient. Needed to pull up sharp ish and the back brake was completely rubbish when I needed it. Pulled and pulled, then locked up, applied more front and had to go straight on in the hairpin, then couldn't unclip so fell over and pirouetted. Typically I had my New Jersey and shorts on! I'll be trying the swiss stop pads for starters!Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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Supermurph09 wrote:Cheers for replies. Had my first crash today going down a 20% gradient. Needed to pull up sharp ish and the back brake was completely rubbish when I needed it. Pulled and pulled, then locked up, applied more front and had to go straight on in the hairpin, then couldn't unclip so fell over and pirouetted. Typically I had my New Jersey and shorts on! I'll be trying the swiss stop pads for starters!
Are they set up ok?
The 561's are 105 equivalent non-series brakes - they work fine. My mate has them on his Cube and loves them.
I have tried these non-series brakes and Ultegras and tbh I can feel zero difference in terms of stopping power.
Most upgrades are just lighter not 'better' however that is defined.
I sometimes think there is a 'performance justification' factor involved in buying kit that looks 'hot' but actually offers zip performance increase.
Some people are even convinced that swapping out a 105 Chainset for a pig ugly Ultegra variant (2014 looks even worse) will make a huge difference to their cycling performance - funny world really.0 -
Supermurph, just buy the Ultegras.
I have the same bike and replaced the BR561 (or whatever they're called) for Ultegra, using the same pads in each (Swissstop greens) and the difference is night and day. Yours are not deep drop, that's a red herring.
I did the Fred Whitton yesterday in the most demanding braking conditions (eg Hardknott/Wrynose/Honister passes downhill in the wet) and they gave me great confidence and far better braking than the old ones. Well worth upgrading.0 -
Bordersroadie wrote:Supermurph, just buy the Ultegras.
I have the same bike and replaced the BR561 (or whatever they're called) for Ultegra, using the same pads in each (Swissstop greens) and the difference is night and day. Yours are not deep drop, that's a red herring.
I did the Fred Whitton yesterday in the most demanding braking conditions (eg Hardknott/Wrynose/Honister passes downhill in the wet) and they gave me great confidence and far better braking than the old ones. Well worth upgrading.
Hi, yeah I think that's what I will do. Just a question, what tyres are you using?Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/
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I'm a 25c convert. The Ultremo 23c are very comfy even compared to many 25c (unusual for 23c) but too fragile for my liking.
25c Conti GP4000s tyres fit (just) and give a superb ride with no weight penalty.0 -
solboy10 wrote:setting up the brakes properly in the first place is more important than the sticker on the caliper.
I rode Shimano on my road bike for years, unbranded 1992 then 1994 era 105 dual pivot and when I finally rebuilt the whole bike around a new frame (Ribble Sportive black and red carbon) I took the opportunity to introduce a new 6600 grey chainset, front mech and brake calipers. Performance was the same mediocre level (old school 9=speed Dura Ace levers) and I resigned this to Shimano brakes being okay but not great. I had a second bike by then with SRAM Rival where the brakes were sensational in comparison. But cycling is a funny thing and our assumptions are not always right.
After building the Ribble I took the bike into my LBS for a final checkover of cables, headset and any stupid mistakes I had made and when it came back the braking performance was transformed. Good bite and every bit as capable as my SRAM. It genunely surprised me after reading all those reviews for years critical of Shimano brakes modulation or lever travel.
Since then I also have a third bike (Fausti Coppi KSC) with old school Campag Record Ti 9 speed groupset throughout. It needed a few bits done and in the process had new cables and the same LBS helped finish the setting up. Braking performance is every bit as good as the Ultegra and Rival so it reset my thinking that all 3 are perfectly capable. I am typically 90kg to 95kg so I do give the brakes something to do when they are asked.
I don't know if Ultegra calipers would be specifically better than your (OP) unbranded brakes but as it seems they can all be set up really well I would try and do that first if it were me. I have found pads make a difference of course as others have mentioned and I have also felt it helpful to keep the braking surface on the wheels clean. I bought a Mavic rim eraser a few years ago and I spend a few minutes cleaning the rims maybe once or twice a year. (note: you get a lot of 'iron filings' from it so it needs to be done over the bath or outside! to keep you out of trouble with the family).
Having said all the above, the disc brakes on my mountain bike are in a different league altogether and I have been down the same steep roads with much greater confidence and a big grin as they scrub the speed later, quicker and more safely in a way I could only dream of on the road bikes. So for any future changes my interest would go towards the emerging trend for disc brakes (rim/hub) if one would work with the frame in question and give that same confidence on our typical road tyres.0 -
Upgrading the pads would probably make a big difference. After years of riding with Swiss-stop green I recently used 105's with the standard Shimano pads. Not a huge difference in the dry but after one hilly ride in the wet I fitted Swiss-stop as soon as I got home (not before a shower and a change of clothes obviously)! The 105 pads had no power at all in the wet. Also due to the wet they picked up embedded grit and slivers of aluminium from the rims, scouring the rims more in one ride than I would normally get in weeks . I never seem to get that problem with swiss-stops which also give good braking even in the wet.0