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New Wheels - upto £500 & alloy

SquillinossettSquillinossett Posts: 1,678
edited April 2013 in Road buying advice
Spring is upon us (or so I am told) and its time for some new kit.

Im currently using the Giant P-SL1 wheels that came on the bike. Although ok wheels, I was using EA90SL's last year (until I broke them) so these just aint the same.

I looked at deep carbons but quite frankly I dont need them and feel I will be better served by some decent alloy wheels again.

im 90kg so want something strong/stiff.

I know people will suggest handbuilts, and I am considering them, but just interested on factory builts at this stage.

Two I have considered are:

mavic ksyrium elite - £450
http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/w ... -2013.html

vision trimax t30 - £390
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/vision-trimax-t ... -wheelset/

Both get good reviews so not sure which to go for. Open to suggestions as well.

Thanks.
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Posts

  • Camcycle1974Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Doesn't the fact that you can't now use the wheels you broke tell you something? Had they been hand builts its likely you could still be using them. £500 for a set of handbuilts is enough to get something very nice indeed. £500 on a set of factory builts will get you something decent at best.

    There are plenty of builders about who could spec you something tailored to your needs. Why buy off the peg when you can buy bespoke?
  • Mr DogMr Dog Posts: 643
    Elites are everything I need from a wheel. Light enough ( for me :D ), look good, stiff and robust. I like my rs80's too. Have never needed to to have either repaired which is big advatage of handbuilts. Keep the Giant's, they will make a great winter/training wheelset.
    Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    A wheel is only decet if it meet your needs. You have have sort of described your needs but how you ride is as important as your weight. If you are breaking spokes then a higher spoke count is probably needed. You have picked light low spoke count wheels. I do not think this is so sensible. Try Miche Reflex for cheap reliable wheelset but certainly not light. The handbuilt route will get you a wheelset that will weigh around 1700g and will be stiff but it will have 28 spokes up front and 32 on the rear with shallowish rims. Less spokewill comprise the build if you are breaking spokes. Also thing of rim like the H Plus Archetype or if you can cope with the weight the DT Swiss RR585 would be a good option and with this rim a 24 spoke fornt and a 28 spoke rear would be fine. The RR585 is one of th stiffest rims on the market. You won;t have to spend £500 either. More money does not mean a wheel more suited to you needs.

    Of course I am thinking of handbuilt as all the "factory" options are "race ready wheels", are you racing?

    Also Mr dog. Your recomendation of the Elites is fine but a basline is needed, like your weight, riding style, power out put. Yes the Mavic's might meet your needs so would the Fulrum Racing 5's or maybe the racing 3's.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • SquillinossettSquillinossett Posts: 1,678
    Sorry, I should have been clearer. I have never broken a spoke. I wrote them off in an accident, along with my old bike. even managed to crack the rear hub, so in this situation handbuilts would not have fared much better.

    I like the idea of Mavics as they can be rebuilt and my LBS carries spares all the time (All Terrain Cycles)

    I know handbuilts can be built to my needs, but quite frankly I am yet to see a set (in the £500 price range) that gives me the "ooohhh" factor. Fickle yes, but I wheels I like the look f as well as want to ride.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Cracked a hb then the wrong hub has been used or lacing/tension has been used that the hub was never deisgned for. A good builder will use the right hub for the job. Hubs that don't suffer flange cracking issues like Miche and Shimano hubs tend to be heavier, they are also heavier to the size of the bearings, a large shell is needed.

    You may have been looking at the wrong handbuilts if you have not got the woo factor. I can think of a few that simply look lush. However if Mavics do it for you go for it, yo are kind of answering your own question here.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bmxboy10bmxboy10 Posts: 1,933
    So we find ourselves here again.... :lol:

    My last bike had handbuilts and they were built by a renowned builder. They were fine, rolled well and made for a super comfy ride. They also went out of true within 300 miles and the rim weld was poor (Excellight Rim). I was happy with them and they suited the bike visually but did not get my heart racing if you know what I mean.

    I got a new bike in November and got a set of Elites 2013 model to go on it. First impressions were not that great but now I have a few miles under my belt I really do think these are great wheels. The bike just flies and my climbing and tendency to ride out of the saddle is greater because the bike just feels alive. I did contemplate swapping the Elites for a set of Archtiypes and I still may get a set built up in the summer but one thing is for sure I will also be keeping hold of the Elites as they really are as good as people say - and I am heavier than you BTW :oops:
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,707
    I know handbuilts can be built to my needs, but quite frankly I am yet to see a set (in the £500 price range) that gives me the "ooohhh" factor. Fickle yes, but I wheels I like the look f as well as want to ride.

    You can have your name sprayed on the rims in Arial or Verdana... and red nipples, what's not to like about handbuilts?
  • Mickyg88Mickyg88 Posts: 289
    The wheels thing goes on and on in here, with great advice being given by Ugo and thecycleclinic regarding handbuilt wheels, archetypes seem to be the flavour of the month, but factory wheels seem to come and go over the years, we've had shimano rs80's, prolite braccianos, kysirium elites, HED Ardennes, etc all being the best according to various reviews.
    Lots of guys go down the handbuilt route, and no doubt they are doing what's right for them, but on the other hand the major players are still selling wheels to the aftermarket, in big enough numbers to be profitable, so where does it leave us mere mortals with £3-500 to spend, personally I've taken advice from the guy where I bought my bike, he has a racing team and I've gone with factory wheels used by his team, right or wrong time will tell, I was going for hanbuilt but we can only take the advice of those we know and trust, nothing against the two guys mentioned earlier, but to be honest its a difficult decision to make.
  • Camcycle1974Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Mickyg88 wrote:
    The wheels thing goes on and on in here, with great advice being given by Ugo and thecycleclinic regarding handbuilt wheels, archetypes seem to be the flavour of the month, but factory wheels seem to come and go over the years, we've had shimano rs80's, prolite braccianos, kysirium elites, HED Ardennes, etc all being the best according to various reviews.
    Lots of guys go down the handbuilt route, and no doubt they are doing what's right for them, but on the other hand the major players are still selling wheels to the aftermarket, in big enough numbers to be profitable, so where does it leave us mere mortals with £3-500 to spend, personally I've taken advice from the guy where I bought my bike, he has a racing team and I've gone with factory wheels used by his team, right or wrong time will tell, I was going for hanbuilt but we can only take the advice of those we know and trust, nothing against the two guys mentioned earlier, but to be honest its a difficult decision to make.

    Sums it up very well. There is no right and wrong per se, only personal preference. My position is that I am not a good enough rider to appreciate the subtle differences between wheels but I like the idea of being able to spec a wheel to suit me personally, my riding style etc.

    What were those wheels recommended to you by the way?
  • mattythemodmattythemod Posts: 289
    Sorry, I should have been clearer. I am yet to see a set (in the £500 price range) that gives me the "ooohhh" factor. Fickle yes, but I wheels I like the look f as well as want to ride.


    Check out some of the gallery builds on Justridingalongs or Stradas website ...theres some very tatsy looking handbuilt road wheels , i recently had some DT Swiss 240 hubs built up with Sapim Race spokes onto some Pacenti SL23 Rims and aprt from the WOW factor they are like a magic carpet ride i would never buy another set of factory wheels !!

    Sound advice from Ugo and CycleClinic as always .
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,990
    At your weight Mavic Ksyrium Elites are a very good option. They are really stiff and pretty light. They look fantastic destickered with tan sidewall tyres.

    R3131212.jpg

    Although I would still go with handbuilts, I love my wheelsmiths, they are IRD Cadence Road rims, extralite front/record rear and CX Rays. they weigh 1440g and are as stiff as the ksyriums and easily serviceable.

    1FD2DBC3-AED0-4660-B041-5802B7402B63-8167-0000071AAEA36553_zps04cd1558.jpg
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • Mickyg88Mickyg88 Posts: 289
    Neve seen them before, look good and very lightweight, price seems ok too, come out well in the online reviews, anyone on here using them, if so what do you think of them.
  • milesemilese Posts: 1,233
    26052010093.jpg

    I've had them for about 3 years on my good bike. Never had to true them, or any other probs. I'm no wheel expert but they are definitely much nicer to ride and feel faster than the original wheels, and the cheaper wheels I have on my training bike.

    I don't think you can get close to them for the price with mainstream wheels.

    I've used them for racing and won a couple of sprints with them. I'm 73kg, but never noticed any flex.

    If I crashed them I'd buy another pair in an instant.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,707
    Milese wrote:
    26052010093.jpg

    I've had them for about 3 years on my good bike. Never had to true them, or any other probs. I'm no wheel expert but they are definitely much nicer to ride and feel faster than the original wheels, and the cheaper wheels I have on my training bike.

    I don't think you can get close to them for the price with mainstream wheels.

    I've used them for racing and won a couple of sprints with them. I'm 73kg, but never noticed any flex.

    If I crashed them I'd buy another pair in an instant.


    Are they the same wheels as in the link? 23 mm wide rims are relatively new, with the exception of HED. How many miles have you put into them?
    I would be very (I mean) very surprised if they can do 10,000 trouble free... in fact I would be very surprised if they can do 10,000 miles at all
  • pkripperpkripper Posts: 652
    But how many of us are realistically looking for wheels that can do 10000 miles trouble free? It's perfectly possible to get wheels that will, but as with anything its a trade off of weight vs aesthetics vs aero vs convenience vs price.

    I'd be quite happy with a set that could do half that - my best wheels won't see 10k miles in their entire life, whereas the winter set will and in far crappier conditions, hence they're a completely different build.

    That's the info that's missing, for summer bike, get whatever floats your boat - everything is rebuildable to an extent, and to a price. Whatever wheelset you get will be compromised in some way vs another wheelset you could have got. Personally, I think the mavics are a great wheelset, and if you've got a local shop that carries spares and can fix them (if required) then there's no reason not to get them.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,707
    pkripper wrote:
    But how many of us are realistically looking for wheels that can do 10000 miles trouble free? It's perfectly possible to get wheels that will, but as with anything its a trade off of weight vs aesthetics vs aero vs convenience vs price.

    I'd be quite happy with a set that could do half that - my best wheels won't see 10k miles in their entire life, whereas the winter set will and in far crappier conditions, hence they're a completely different build.

    That's the info that's missing, for summer bike, get whatever floats your boat - everything is rebuildable to an extent, and to a price. Whatever wheelset you get will be compromised in some way vs another wheelset you could have got. Personally, I think the mavics are a great wheelset, and if you've got a local shop that carries spares and can fix them (if required) then there's no reason not to get them.

    Most people ask me wheels for sunday best, nice weather etc... I have stopped believing it, as once they are on, the previous ones will see very little use.. and that includes winter... therefore a set that won't do a fair few miles is not an option... especially if it comes with a monkey price tag...
    there are exceptions, but most riders don't want to go back to their Shimano R 500
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I do 6000-8000 miles a year minimm so I need wheels that do in excess of 10,000 miles. Also a number people I have built for do similar mielage although many don't. However why wold anyone want build that won't last unless it a race wheel set that will be rebuilt and the end of the season. Even light weight handbuilt wheels can last silly miles (I am proving that) if they are treated right.

    If you are buying wheels that won't see 10,000 miles in there entire life, give them to me and I will put some miles on them :)

    I agree with ugo's last statement. Shimano R500's shudder.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • pkripperpkripper Posts: 652
    I do 6000-8000 miles a year minimm so I need wheels that do in excess of 10,000 miles. Also a number people I have built for do similar mielage although many don't. However why wold anyone want build that won't last unless it a race wheel set that will be rebuilt and the end of the season. Even light weight handbuilt wheels can last silly miles (I am proving that) if they are treated right.

    If you are buying wheels that won't see 10,000 miles in there entire life, give them to me and I will put some miles on them :)

    I agree with ugo's last statement. Shimano R500's shudder.

    I'm not sure we're disagreeing here - pretty much any wheel can last as long as you want it to, it's just how much it costs over its life to get there. A bit like triggers broom. A properly built handbuilt set will probably get there with less trouble and cost, but in all honesty, I've not seen many that look as bling as factory wheels.

    My light wheels won't see that much action over their life - I prefer to mash out the miles on cheaper but decent handbuilts or the powertap wheel, and then bring the nice wheels out for the summer miles.

    Handbuilts and factory wheels all have their place - I have a few of each, but each will represent a compromise in one way or another, even if it's as shallow as aesthetics!
  • bmxboy10bmxboy10 Posts: 1,933
    pkripper wrote:
    I do 6000-8000 miles a year minimm so I need wheels that do in excess of 10,000 miles. Also a number people I have built for do similar mielage although many don't. However why wold anyone want build that won't last unless it a race wheel set that will be rebuilt and the end of the season. Even light weight handbuilt wheels can last silly miles (I am proving that) if they are treated right.

    If you are buying wheels that won't see 10,000 miles in there entire life, give them to me and I will put some miles on them :)

    I agree with ugo's last statement. Shimano R500's shudder.

    I'm not sure we're disagreeing here - pretty much any wheel can last as long as you want it to, it's just how much it costs over its life to get there. A bit like triggers broom. A properly built handbuilt set will probably get there with less trouble and cost, but in all honesty, I've not seen many that look as bling as factory wheels.


    My light wheels won't see that much action over their life - I prefer to mash out the miles on cheaper but decent handbuilts or the powertap wheel, and then bring the nice wheels out for the summer miles.

    Handbuilts and factory wheels all have their place - I have a few of each, but each will represent a compromise in one way or another, even if it's as shallow as aesthetics!

    Dah dah! Finally a sensible resultution to the debate - surely :lol: Ugo - I will be in touch again in the summer when i have some dosh :wink:
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,707
    pkripper wrote:
    I do 6000-8000 miles a year minimm so I need wheels that do in excess of 10,000 miles. Also a number people I have built for do similar mielage although many don't. However why wold anyone want build that won't last unless it a race wheel set that will be rebuilt and the end of the season. Even light weight handbuilt wheels can last silly miles (I am proving that) if they are treated right.

    If you are buying wheels that won't see 10,000 miles in there entire life, give them to me and I will put some miles on them :)

    I agree with ugo's last statement. Shimano R500's shudder.

    I'm not sure we're disagreeing here - pretty much any wheel can last as long as you want it to, it's just how much it costs over its life to get there. A bit like triggers broom. A properly built handbuilt set will probably get there with less trouble and cost, but in all honesty, I've not seen many that look as bling as factory wheels.

    My light wheels won't see that much action over their life - I prefer to mash out the miles on cheaper but decent handbuilts or the powertap wheel, and then bring the nice wheels out for the summer miles.

    Handbuilts and factory wheels all have their place - I have a few of each, but each will represent a compromise in one way or another, even if it's as shallow as aesthetics!

    I don't want to go into the usual tedious debate of factory vs handbuilt... the wheels in question are actually hand built.
    My question was whether these wheels can really last three years of intense use... I don't believe it is possible, looking at the components. 3 Years of good weather use should be something close to 8-10 K miles for the average cyclist
  • SquillinossettSquillinossett Posts: 1,678
    Guys,

    Thanks for everyone's input. after reading around further I think I will be going with the Mavics. Though looking in the shop I am quite taken with the Ksyrium SR's so just working out which to go for!
  • I have had a pair of ugo's wheels for two weeks now and put about 150 miles on them.

    H-plus son archetype rims with Dura ace hubs (can't remember the spoke make...) and no idea how much they weigh.

    However paired with GP4000 (25mm) they are twice my previous wheel set (mavic cx22's) and eat up the "great" roads we have in Surrey.

    All for approx 410 ish pounds.

    Can't recommend him, his advice or the build enough.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,707
    I have had a pair of ugo's wheels for two weeks now and put about 150 miles on them.

    Thst's good going
    H-plus son archetype rims with Dura ace hubs (can't remember the spoke make...) and no idea how much they weigh.

    DT swiss... haven't weighed them... I suppose 1600 grams
    All for approx 410 ish pounds.

    DId you steal those hubs?
  • Mickyg88Mickyg88 Posts: 289
    I'm wondering where we draw the line between handbuilt and factory handbuilt wheels, there are a few wheel builders on here who obviously build wheels in the 'garden shed' and do a fantastic job, producing wheels to order and specified to the riders needs, but as we move along to the likes of Wheelsmith it's no longer a one man band, but again posters such as NapD have nothing but praise for them, again his reviews are well respected. Going on from this there are a number of mainstream wheel builders who claim that their wheels are handbuilt, such as American Classic, Soul ( mentioned earlier) Cero, etc. obviously these wheels aren't built to order or to a specific need, but if the buyer sees that they are suitable for his riding style/weight/ even bling factor, why should they not be considered. I might be talking censored here as I'm no expert, but have followed all the wheel posts with interest on here.
    I don't want this to be seen as a a post against Ugo et al, just want a considered view.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,707
    Mickyg88 wrote:
    I'm wondering where we draw the line between handbuilt and factory handbuilt wheels, there are a few wheel builders on here who obviously build wheels in the 'garden shed' and do a fantastic job, producing wheels to order and specified to the riders needs, but as we move along to the likes of Wheelsmith it's no longer a one man band, but again posters such as NapD have nothing but praise for them, again his reviews are well respected. Going on from this there are a number of mainstream wheel builders who claim that their wheels are handbuilt, such as American Classic, Soul ( mentioned earlier) Cero, etc. obviously these wheels aren't built to order or to a specific need, but if the buyer sees that they are suitable for his riding style/weight/ even bling factor, why should they not be considered. I might be talking censored here as I'm no expert, but have followed all the wheel posts with interest on here.
    I don't want this to be seen as a a post against Ugo et al, just want a considered view.


    What I said what that one particular wheel set was not build to last and I was surprised someone claimed it did serve him well for three years, that is regardless of whether I built it, Soul, Cero or Wheelsmith... nobody was drawing lines. To an extent I like to generalise... i.e. all the Chinese wheels I have seen are badly built, but this was not the case
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    "Factory" wheels from Shimano, Mavic, Easton, Campag/fulcrum are handbuilt it just they use fewer spokes (and stright pulls often) and heavier/stiffer rims with fewer spokes than wheels built in shops or at home with aftermarket components. As to which is better it depends on how you define better.

    Also handbuilt is not better if they are not bilt properly i.e appropriate stress releiving even spoke tension e.t.c or just shoddy components. I suppose "factory" wheels have become popular because there is good quality control fromt he like of Shimano, Mavic and Campagnolo. Independent wheelbuilders QC is variable from builder to builder so you have to know that persons work in order to trust it. A badly built wheelbuild by a independent builder may not last long but a good one will last a lot longer.

    No lines really as to which is better.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • philbar72philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    I have had a pair of ugo's wheels for two weeks now and put about 150 miles on them.

    H-plus son archetype rims with Dura ace hubs (can't remember the spoke make...) and no idea how much they weigh.

    However paired with GP4000 (25mm) they are twice my previous wheel set (mavic cx22's) and eat up the "great" roads we have in Surrey.

    All for approx 410 ish pounds.

    Can't recommend him, his advice or the build enough.

    Those hubs were very cheap if thats the case. I've got similar wheels and hubs, they are fantastic...
  • Mickyg88Mickyg88 Posts: 289
    Thankyou to the cycle clinic for a very fair and straight answer, but to be expected from you anyway, and Ugo also.
    One last point, which you can ignore if your getting bored, what if cycle clinic or Ugo (just for example) took 10 guys off the street, trained them to your requirements, then had them sat in a small warehouse building wheels all day,to conform to your QC, which you then sold via a retailer, do you then become a supplier of factory built wheels rather than handbuilt?
  • CalpolCalpol Posts: 1,039
    Mickyg88 wrote:
    Thankyou to the cycle clinic for a very fair and straight answer, but to be expected from you anyway, and Ugo also.
    One last point, which you can ignore if your getting bored, what if cycle clinic or Ugo (just for example) took 10 guys off the street, trained them to your requirements, then had them sat in a small warehouse building wheels all day,to conform to your QC, which you then sold via a retailer, do you then become a supplier of factory built wheels rather than handbuilt?
    Good point. FWIW I think there is plenty room in the market for both.Its good that we still have people who want to take the artisan approach rather than just looking at maximizing margins. The ability to get a bespoke product tailored to an individuals needs and at a very reasonable cost is rare and should be cherished however it doesn't mean that anyone buying a mass produced product should be chastised also. We all have choice right? I am sure that if Ugo was inclined to operate a more commercial venture then he could be quite successful. Wheelsmith.co.uk seems however to be suffering from the problem of becoming too successful for their own principles/capacity.
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