Wheels: price of [i]significant[/i] upgrade?

Sprool
Posts: 1,022
Scott S30 owner here - like most of their road bikes, it comes with the 'heavy but solid' alex race 28 wheels, which get quite lacklustre reviews. The question is am I likely to get a significant upgrade in terms of comfort/performance by spending £160 or less on a new pair of wheels, such as;
Mavic Askiums - ever popular here
Shimano S30
Fulcrum 7 or 5
Planet X AL30 or A57, etc. etc.
[insert preferred budget upgrade set here]
All these are around or under £150 a pair and weigh around 1700 - 1800g /pair.
Is this a significant improvement over the old Alex race 28's already on the bike (at about 1800g) or are you really looking at having to spend well over £200 to get a decent step up in terms of performance?
Should I go for the best sub-£150 bargain now the sun's out or wait until I can afford/justify a larger sum (>£300?) on a pro pair? Not sure the bike's worth a £300 - £350 upgrade.
Mavic Askiums - ever popular here
Shimano S30
Fulcrum 7 or 5
Planet X AL30 or A57, etc. etc.
[insert preferred budget upgrade set here]
All these are around or under £150 a pair and weigh around 1700 - 1800g /pair.
Is this a significant improvement over the old Alex race 28's already on the bike (at about 1800g) or are you really looking at having to spend well over £200 to get a decent step up in terms of performance?
Should I go for the best sub-£150 bargain now the sun's out or wait until I can afford/justify a larger sum (>£300?) on a pro pair? Not sure the bike's worth a £300 - £350 upgrade.
0
Comments
-
-
Hey Sprool - FWIW - I had a 2010 Boardman - probably similar quality/spec as your Scott, with 'uninspiring' Ritchey wheelset. Following a small prang, I had to replace the wheelset and plumped for Racing 5s and a set of Durano tyres ... the difference was immense in terms of ride quality, comfort & enjoyment. Personally, I wouldn't spend any more on a £1K bike.0
-
£250 plus is where the gains start IME.
Wheelsets at around £150 are all much of a muchness TBF and unlikely to make much difference to the OE ones.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
I'd first consider lighter weight inner tubes and tires, if you want more speed, and a lighter feeling.
For comfort, wide tires with low pressure will make the ride more smooth, but probably be slower and not as 'nimble'.
What width tires are on the bike now, and do you know if the inner tubes are 'standard', or 'light weight' ?
But don't sacrifice too much durability and reliability...
Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA0 -
The perception that because something is heavy then it is reliable is wrong. The reverse is true: if something is reliable it is bound to have some weight, not necessarily 2.5 Kg.
These off the peg sets fitted on race bikes are crap builds, assembled in China with cheap spokes by low paid workers who don't take particular pride in what they build and certainly don't spend more time that it is strictly necessary to assemble a wheel... so heavy yes, reliable not so much. A well built 32 spokes set is reliable, a badly built one is not necessarily reliable.left the forum March 20230 -
I changed my wheels on a CAAD 8 to Fulcrum Racing 5's a couple of weeks ago.
For sure notice a difference - ride is smoother and holds speed easier. Acceleration out the saddle small improvement and also gaining speed in tuck position on descents.
For the price money well spent in my opinion!!0 -
smidsy wrote:£250 plus is where the gains start IME. Wheelsets at around £150 are all much of a muchness TBF and unlikely to make much difference to the OE ones.JayKosta wrote:I'd first consider lighter weight inner tubes and tires, if you want more speed, and a lighter feeling.
For comfort, wide tires with low pressure will make the ride more smooth, but probably be slower and not as 'nimble'.
What width tires are on the bike now, and do you know if the inner tubes are 'standard', or 'light weight' ?
Jay Kostaugo.santalucia wrote:These off the peg sets fitted on race bikes are crap builds, assembled in China with cheap spokes by low paid workers who don't take particular pride in what they build and certainly don't spend more time that it is strictly necessary to assemble a wheel.DrewDuncan wrote:I changed my wheels on a CAAD 8 to Fulcrum Racing 5's a couple of weeks ago.
For sure notice a difference - ride is smoother and holds speed easier. Acceleration out the saddle small improvement and also gaining speed in tuck position on descents.
For the price money well spent in my opinion!!0 -
I am with Nap. Those are all entry level wheels on other bikes.
You need a £250-£300 budget to notice any real difference.
I put Elites on my old Team Carbon. They made a big difference but then the stock Ritcheys were bendy £150 wheels so they had a head start.Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
Boardman FS Pro0 -
I wouldn't bother.
Take the girfriend out for dinner and buy brownie points to ride more. Will make more difference.0 -
You can't go wrong with Fulcrum 5 and paired up with a lighter tyre you'll see an improvement0
-
Or buy 2nd hand?
I changed the stock Ritchey on my Team Carbon to 2nd hand American Classic Victory 30 and they are much better all round, noticeably quicker to spin up and hold speed....made the Ritcheys feel very dead and dull to ride.Cheers, Stu0 -
duckson wrote:Or buy 2nd hand?
I changed the stock Ritchey on my Team Carbon to 2nd hand American Classic Victory 30 and they are much better all round, noticeably quicker to spin up and hold speed....made the Ritcheys feel very dead and dull to ride.
Which adds to the weight of opinion. Those Victory 30's are a £400rrp wheelset.
I have the 420 Aeros (2nd hand) and they too are a vast improvement over the Maddux RS 3.0 that Cannondale use. But the 420's are a £600rrp wheelset.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
Yep, but i didnt obviously pay RRP as i got them 2nd hand and barely used.Cheers, Stu0
-
Sprool wrote:This doesn't sit well with me. First why would you spend more time than is necessary to manufacture an item, it's a business at the end of the day that has to make a profit to survive? Second, if the wheels are really as crap as you say, why do many of the big names in bikes risk their reputation by providing their goods with poor quality components fitted? Cost-effective-entry-level is one thing, but to slag them all off as rubbish is a bit of a generalisation.
Happy and confident enough to generalise on the topic... Bike manufacturers don't particularly care of reputation in that sense... if you are not happy, they take more money off you in the form of an "upgrade"... we are a bunch of idiots and buy into the concept.
I can build a set of those wheels in less than an hour pushing it, but I normally spend between three and four spread on two separate sessions... it is the difference between something "put together" and something "built at the best of my ability". The difference in reliability is immense I'm afraid
Ready made meals are edible... saying they are good is pushing it...left the forum March 20230 -
Hey Ugo - do you sell wheels then? Whats the spec/price?0
-
Sprool wrote:Hey Ugo - do you sell wheels then? Whats the spec/price?
He builds them first then sells them. There is a subtle difference. Price/spec up to you but I am sure he will be able to give you some expert advice.0 -
Ugo comments about wheels are true. There are plenty of badly built wheels on bikes out there. I have in the shop at present a Boardman, the owner has done 400 miles and a spoke went. The owner want's it rebuilt not a replacement wheel from halfords which would be his right I think. On Sunday a chap at a local sportif had to adandon the event as he found a broken spoke on his Renoylds wheel before he started (an odd time to notice but hey ho). The spoke broke at the nipple. The wheel has been back to renoylds once already for the same problem, so he is not happy. At present the shop is full of wheels for rebuilding.
Also asking a builder like ugo, me or anyone else the spec and price on a wheel is a bit of an open question. We need to know your weight and your indented use amonst other things. Do you cycle in poor weather alot (this influence hub and rim choice), commute, tour, carry load on panniers, race, what distances do you cover (this may influence hub choice and spoke count). What are your priorities in such a build, low weight, aerodynamics (you might be a cat 2 racer for all we know) or reliablty of both spokes, rim and hub. Maybe balance of three is required or the build needs to skewed in a particular direction depending on your needs.
This can be decided by picking up the phone or visting a builder. It is easier than asking for a spec and price. No one should be telling you what you need as there will be more than one wheelset that will meet your needs. Find someone who help you sift through the options as every wheel has it pro's and con's. Only you can decide which pro's and con's you can live with.
£250 -£300 can build everything from a sub 1400g wheelset to a wheelset suitable for light touring/Audax or may be a proper touring wheel. More can spent of course and less may be needed, good relibale wheels can be build for a lot less in fact bt again it depends on needs/priorities. More spend does not alway mean a better wheel as first you have to define better which is what I said to one chap on Sunday who asked if I could build him a better wheelset than he currently had.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
thanks for the informative post - I guess I'm starting to get a picture of the cost involved in gaining a decent improvement over my current entry-level wheels. I'm not interested in spending £130 - £150 on a new set which offer no performance benefit over what I already have fitted. I'm after doing 50 mile rides in the hills of west yorkshire; lighter wheels with more 'feel' on downhills and less drag for uphills are my expectations. Strength cant be compromised as the roads round here are very shoddy in places. Guess I'll ride my Alex Race 28's till they break or buckle, and save up more in the meantime for something that will give me a significant improvement.0
-
Sprool wrote:thanks for the informative post - I guess I'm starting to get a picture of the cost involved in gaining a decent improvement over my current entry-level wheels. I'm not interested in spending £130 - £150 on a new set which offer no performance benefit over what I already have fitted. I'm after doing 50 mile rides in the hills of west yorkshire; lighter wheels with more 'feel' on downhills and less drag for uphills are my expectations. Strength cant be compromised as the roads round here are very shoddy in places. Guess I'll ride my Alex Race 28's till they break or buckle, and save up more in the meantime for something that will give me a significant improvement.
The correct decision...Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
A little more constructive than your earlier "don't bother" post0
-
-
Sprool wrote:Hey Ugo - do you sell wheels then? Whats the spec/price?
He built mine for me about 6 weeks back and they have transformed my bike - after replacing the Fulcrum Racing 7's on there previously. The new wheels / tyres / tubes are 400g+ lighter than what came off - and it made a big improvement in how the bike felt. Handles better, quicker to spin up to speed, seems to hold the speed easier - but most of all far more comfortable. I found the Racing 7's to be pretty harsh - but handbuilts from Ugo are simply lovely to ride on.
A huge thumbs up from me - and definitely worth the money. Ugo can share the price if he so wishes (I know how he works and builds wheels as a sideline rather than a business, and the wheels are "custom" after all - and so the price will vary depending on parts) but while more than the budget stated for the OP, was a bargain for the quality wheelset that I now have. Well worth the extra (and i dont see why a quality wheelset shouldnt go on a £1k bike - they will last and can be transferred to a £2k bike easily enough)0 -
Wirral_Paul wrote:Sprool wrote:Hey Ugo - do you sell wheels then? Whats the spec/price?
He built mine for me about 6 weeks back and they have transformed my bike - after replacing the Fulcrum Racing 7's on there previously. The new wheels / tyres / tubes are 400g+ lighter than what came off - and it made a big improvement in how the bike felt. Handles better, quicker to spin up to speed, seems to hold the speed easier - but most of all far more comfortable. I found the Racing 7's to be pretty harsh - but handbuilts from Ugo are simply lovely to ride on.
A huge thumbs up from me - and definitely worth the money. Ugo can share the price if he so wishes (I know how he works and builds wheels as a sideline rather than a business, and the wheels are "custom" after all - and so the price will vary depending on parts) but while more than the budget stated for the OP, was a bargain for the quality wheelset that I now have. Well worth the extra (and i dont see why a quality wheelset shouldnt go on a £1k bike - they will last and can be transferred to a £2k bike easily enough)
Oh, that's great news...
The short answer for the OP is no, I don't sell wheels.
I do build wheels when I have time and most of the people I build for have faces and supply their own components. I also repair and rebuild wheels for the local crowd, which is where I have the chance to fully appreciate the great far eastern Craft and the ingenious solutions adopted by some of the big names in the business!
Occasionally I get hold of a suitable box, which means I can even deliver a set of wheels (like in the case of Paul), in which case I do supply some components, but I make no profit on these. It is a choice, I could set up business accounts with a few distributors and it would probably make sense to do so, but if I made money out of components I would end up being a lot more biased, while this way I can fully appreciate that a Miche hub costing roughly 40 quid is actually better built than one made by Chris King and costing in excess of 250...left the forum March 20230 -
Thats cool, so there is a possibility that I can get a significant upgrade on my current wheels for possibly under £200 rather than waste £140 - £150 on something with no real benefits over what I already have, only I need to find a kind local cyclist that builds great wheels for a hobby0
-
Sprool wrote:Thats cool, so there is a possibility that I can get a significant upgrade on my current wheels for possibly under £200 rather than waste £140 - £150 on something with no real benefits over what I already have, only I need to find a kind local cyclist that builds great wheels for a hobby
Light components cost money for some unknown reason, so if light is your upgrade, 200 is not enough. It is however enough to get you something like Ambrosio Evolution rims on Shimano 105 hubs with some Sapim or DT Swiss spokes... which is there with the best in terms of quality. I think they weigh around 1.8-1.9 Kg but they ride splendidly
But again, if your upgrade means a 1500 grams set of wheels, then you need to spend more or grab a deal on some far eastern made setleft the forum March 20230 -
I got Mavic Open Pro on Miche hubs for £240 and they were a noticeable upgrade on what I had before (Mavic Aksiums). I don't think you will get a good set of wheels for much less without starting to cut corners. The wheels are not going to be any lighter than Aksiums (maybe even heavier at around 1850-1900g) but they will be significantly stiffer which makes them a pleasure to ride and many times more durable than an entry level wheel.
I would save up and get a decent set of entry level handbuilts or keep an eye out on here for a good secondhand set. Handbuilts do come up for sale at decent prices and being second hand matters less since the parts are generally easy to replace. It is also worth having a look round sites like Ugo's blog, Wheelsmiths and Harry Rowlands to get a bit of knowledge of the potential component choices so you know what wheel you are getting and what may or may not be a bargain on here.
Hubs come up cheap on here often as we'll so worth keeping an eye out for that. Many lbs will build you a set of wheels with your own components, though finding a skilled wheel builder is important.0 -
Sprool wrote:thanks for the informative post - I guess I'm starting to get a picture of the cost involved in gaining a decent improvement over my current entry-level wheels. I'm not interested in spending £130 - £150 on a new set which offer no performance benefit over what I already have fitted. I'm after doing 50 mile rides in the hills of west yorkshire; lighter wheels with more 'feel' on downhills and less drag for uphills are my expectations. Strength cant be compromised as the roads round here are very shoddy in places. Guess I'll ride my Alex Race 28's till they break or buckle, and save up more in the meantime for something that will give me a significant improvement.
After spending countless hours researching wheel upgrades I have come to a similar conclusion. When I feel I cant improve my fitness or lose any more weight then I'll start looking at ways to get more from the bike.0 -
Well I've not managed to get the slight kink out of my front rim following a crash last month. The wheel is now as trued as I can do it but the rim's dented and its knocking on the brake pads when i brake. Guess that means time for a new front unless the rim can be repaired. Do people mix and match front and back wheels or is it considered illegal by the cycle fashion police? Do I risk being spurned byt he cycle community0