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Opinions and experience with wheels

notlongnownotlongnow Posts: 176
edited April 2013 in Road buying advice
Im looking to buy some "summer wheels and tyres :roll: "on a budget,I keep looking at the same wheels but being 15st down from 19 im not sure if the wheels im looking at will hold up.I currently ride fulcrum7's with Gatorskins and this set up has been fine no issues at all however they've taken some hammer over the winter and I want to put them away to use for next winter,So I have a little bit of money to spend on wheels & tyres £300 All in so heres my short list-

Fulcrum racing 5
Mavic askuim
Planet x al30
Shimano rs30
Shimano r501c30
or anything ive missed.
with either Continental 4000s,Michelin pro4 or Rubino pro tyres.
So opinions/experiences welcome.

Posts

  • herb71herb71 Posts: 253
    I would consider my route. After much research here, and after making a nuisance of myself at my LBS, I chose to go the handbuilt route. Mavic rims, Sapim spokes and Miche Primato hubs. 32H front and rear. Not the flashiest wheelset, but they will last an age. If I damage one, all the parts are easily replaceable / repairable. I paid £246 for my set which I thought was pretty good value.

    Factory wheels may be fine at your weight, but if you do break a spoke you are looking at a lot of money for a repair.
  • sharky1029sharky1029 Posts: 188
    If you are willing to go a little over your price or wait for an offer, RS80 wheels are a great deal, I have seen them at 270 before in the sales and they are effectively ultegra hubs and Dura ace rims, the weight should be fine on them as well. See them here http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=76735

    However adding on tyres on top would put that well out of your budget.

    R501's are a good budget wheelset but you could get far better in this price range

    Easton EA50's are another to consider with a relatively light weight for the price and easy to source spares for them.

    Tyre wise, GP4000s' are great all year round with decent pucture protection, good rolling speed and good grip in all conditions but for just the summer schwalbe ultremos could be better but then again, that does rely on a good summer appearing.

    Cheapest place to get Contis is from here:http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k373/a4826/grand-prix-4000-s-23-622-mm-black.html
    but you have to pay 5-10 euros postage and suffer with supporting the german economy instead of our own.
  • notlongnownotlongnow Posts: 176
    Is wheel weight that important? what difference should for e.g 200g between wheels make anyhow? I assumed tyres made a bigger impact on a wheelsets performance?,My current Gatorskins are quoted at 280g each so a lighter tyre at 200g saves 160g straight away.
  • Cookie91Cookie91 Posts: 97
    Mavic open pros with hope hubs.

    Seriously robust wheels, my bike was destroyed in a car crash last week. Wheels survived and are true, not one spoke broken!
  • Ive found these to be great, not had them an age so cant say much for durability but for everything else they've been spot on
    http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k373/a ... e-set.html

    The price is fantastic too.

    For wheels - F7s to F5s or aksiums I dont think will make a real difference. Also see what you can pick up 2nd hand on this board and get them looked over at LBS if needs be for not much money. (not much money providing they are ok)
  • nochekmatenochekmate Posts: 3,460

    Never return to a lit firework!
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    For that price I'd agree with others and say that you are better off going for handbuilt. I like factory wheels myself but you really need to up to the next price level to get something really good (Fulcrum 3s, Zondas, Ksyriums).

    On the other hand, if you shop around you can get zondas for under £300. You might be a bit over budget once you add tyres etc, but at that price they are a bargain.
  • I would suggest you contact a 'known' wheel builder. Harry Rowland is a very decent sort and will not 'up sell' you into something you don't need/want.

    I have some of his wheels on my winter bike and they(open pro on campag) are a super smooth ride.

    Mid range factory made wheels are good value-i have some campag neutrons which are great but servicing/spoke breakage etc is problematic.

    good luck
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Instead of the Open Pro's you could also have Velocity A23 as well. If you has silver Spaim Race spokes and Miche hubs on black rims expect the OP build to cost around the £230 mark and a velocity A23 wheelset using the same parts to cost £12 more.

    Both rims are decent. The 4 seasons is another good tyre choice. To get tyres as well yo will have to stick with the Open Pro rims. If your budget was higher than DT Swiss RR465 or H Plus Archetype rims would be excellent options.

    Miche hubs are every bit as good a the Hope pro2 and possibly the Pro3 and are alot cheaper. A 32F/32R spoke count wolf be good for you.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • notlongnownotlongnow Posts: 176
    I always assumed hand builts would be expensive
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    No they are not expensive. In the build queue is a set of Velocity A23 rim with Campagnolo record hubs cost just over £400. These will weigh 1635g for a 32 spoke wheelset using the best hubs money can buy. You can get alot with hanbuilts and lots of spokes does not mean heavy. At the other end of the spectrum you have my weight weenie vanity wheelset at 1362g and that a 28 spoke front and rear wheelset. Everything is doable but most builders choose a different route than heavy rims and low straight pull spoke count.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • edtenedten Posts: 228
    No they are not expensive. In the build queue is a set of Velocity A23 rim with Campagnolo record hubs cost just over £400. These will weigh 1635g for a 32 spoke wheelset using the best hubs money can buy. You can get alot with hanbuilts and lots of spokes does not mean heavy. At the other end of the spectrum you have my weight weenie vanity wheelset at 1362g and that a 28 spoke front and rear wheelset. Everything is doable but most builders choose a different route than heavy rims and low straight pull spoke count.

    £400 for a 1635g wheelset seems heavy to me. A set of Zondas I picked up for £260 are lighter. If shimano groupset RS80s for £300ish are much lighter and are fantastic. There also Mavic Ksyriums which are a bit harsh for my liking but stiff, responsive and reasonably light.
    Personally I would only go handbuilt if I were to build them myself. There's a whole reason to go that route, riding on wheels you've laboured over yourself.

    And yes 200g difference is very noticeable more so as that weight gets closer to the rim. However saving weight at the cost of stiffness is pointless.
  • CrimmeyCrimmey Posts: 207
    Your zondas are 1630g if you are lucky. Not seem that good now? Bargain? Hah. You'll barely notice weight difference contrary to popular belief depending on what you have now. One of the best pair of wheels i had were shimano wh 500, somet like that and they were aroumd 1.9kg and under £100. There's so much out there it is difficult to recommend a single set as there really are no bad wheelsets to avoid so go with your heart and enjoy your new purchase. The planet x's in theory are fantastic but way too much hassle to get stable and reliable. The velocitys on miches, although a superb recommendation aren't a summer show offy set :) Handbuilts easier and cheaper to repair, built more solidly usually, manufactured....people dont seem to have problems with anyway. If you base your decision on looks I think you'll be happier and enjoy your cycling more. For summer the gp4000s tyres were a good shout.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Crimmey wrote:
    Your zondas are 1630g if you are lucky. Not seem that good now? Bargain? Hah.
    Nope, current Zondas are around 1550 actual weight, often a bit less with campag. freehub. You're talking about the ones from about 5 years ago.
    Crimmey wrote:
    You'll barely notice weight difference contrary to popular belief
    If there's anywhere on a bike you will notice a difference in performance it's between a heavy and a light pair of wheels of the same stiffness.
  • CrimmeyCrimmey Posts: 207
    Lots of peeps seem to be buying zondas so im sure someone could prove me wrong, Im confident im not far off. Negligible performance difference will be all in the head not on the road, define heavy and light? Id say 1.7ks a whhelset is light
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Crimmey wrote:
    Lots of peeps seem to be buying zondas so im sure someone could prove me wrong, Im confident im not far off. Negligible performance difference will be all in the head not on the road, define heavy and light? Id say 1.7ks a whhelset is light
    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... =3&t=96874

    No point defining light as it's all relative, but 1.7kgs is on the heavy side these days. The performance difference will be in climbing and perhaps more significantly in the liveliness in quick accelerations, but it's very noticeable and definitely not "all in the head", there is sound physics behind it. Of course the benefit will be more noticeable with a lighter rider.
  • arlowoodarlowood Posts: 2,551
    The OP is right to flag up his concerns over durability vis-a-vis his current 15st weight.

    Many factory builds offer relatively low spoke counts which could be an issue - particularly on today's pothole infested roads. Also some pose problems if spokes do break, in that replacements are difficult to source and repair costs are high.

    My experience goes back a couple of years when I swapped my Mavic CXP22's for a set of Shimano RS80's. These were initially a revelation but after a few weeks I began to notice a fair bit of flexing on the front wheel while climbing out of the saddle. At that time I weighed around the 14st mark.

    Eventually I bit the bullet and had Ugo build me a set around Mavic Open Pro rims with Novatec hubs and DT spokes. 28F/32R. The total cost was well under the OP's budget and for that I got a stiff and responsive wheelset that was also robust and easy to repair if I did suffer breakages. They may not be as light as the RS80's but they do a better job for me.

    For example the OP could spec something like these:-

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... t-12-45725
  • notlongnownotlongnow Posts: 176
    Can I add that at my 19st heaviest I was riding fulcrum 7 20/24 spoke count wheels without issue and still have them now,I do own a pair of shimano r501's which came free with conti ultra sport tyres and iv'e only used them twice as I punctured on my second outing and they're just sitting in the shed.I could put some better tyres on I suppose
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    going back a few post. The A23/Campag record wheelset at 1635g is one example of wheels I build. It is a 32 spoke wheelset with medium weight rims it will never be that light but that is not the customers first concern. For less money alot less I can have built (I use these too) 1362g (~£270) wheelset but this light weight set is not riding in winter filth as the rims will wear out too quickly. 1300g is also possible but will be for light riders ~(80kg) asheavier riders will may encounter spoke issues after a few thousand miles. Lighter can be built too but I rarley do this.

    If weight is the only goal then handbuilt can be built to meet that need. If someone want a relaible all weather wheelset it will weigh more typically 1500-1650g depending on the riders requirements. Often wheelset I build come in anywhere between 1400g-1800g how light will entirely depend on the rider and intended use.

    I would not get too caught up in how light a wheelset is, it make some difference but not alot. Do the maths I have and a difference of 80g make no difference at all.

    Also conider that while Camapag Zonda maybe 1550g and the Campag A23/record wheelset will be 80g heavier, the moment of interia of my wheelset will be lower as rim is lighter. So my wheels will spin up a bit quicker even though they a a tad heavier, there is more to this than headline weight if you want to be picky.

    As for neeb comment I have done the maths and say on a 10% gradient with a 80kg rider me climbing at 10mph my power requirements on a 9kg bike will be ~274W. On a 7kg bike my power requirement would be 268W. Not really that much difference at all. Please do not get into the weight obession trap thinking it will improve your performance it won't the weight changes have to be big to create a big change in power requirements on a hill (and even bigger ont the flats). Please do not assume I ride heavy bikes either. My MTB is 20lbs and my main dry weather road bike is 7.57kg and is not light enough! Making it lighter though will not make any faster.

    The previous poster also mentioned that his low spoke count wheels are still fine and this is good but your riding style may be kind to the spoke. Spoke fail through fatigue and the fewer of them you have the more quickly this will happen, it may take however for a 15 stone rider 10,000 miles or more, maybe alot less though it depends on the rider.

    I used to teach Physics so I can talk bike physics alot, it also helps me decide if something is really worth while.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448

    As for neeb comment I have done the maths and say on a 10% gradient with a 80kg rider me climbing at 10mph my power requirements on a 9kg bike will be ~274W. On a 7kg bike my power requirement would be 268W. Not really that much difference at all. Please do not get into the weight obession trap thinking it will improve your performance it won't the weight changes have to be big to create a big change in power requirements on a hill (and even bigger ont the flats). Please do not assume I ride heavy bikes either. My MTB is 20lbs and my main dry weather road bike is 7.57kg and is not light enough! Making it lighter though will not make any faster.
    That's a bit different from the wheel weight thing though as you are talking about total bike weight and constant power - I think the biggest advantage of light wheels is just in the feel of them and quick acceleration. Totally agree on your point about rim weight being more important than total wheel weight, I don't know the weight of the zonda rims and can well believe that the A23 could be lighter and spin up better. Another thing obviously is that you can easily loose or gain 200g rotating mass just depending on what tyres and tubes you use.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,716
    t I have done the maths and say on a 10% gradient with a 80kg rider me climbing at 10mph my power requirements on a 9kg bike will be ~274W. On a 7kg bike my power requirement would be 268W.

    If you climb a 10% slope longer than your driveway at 10 mph I give you 10 pounds...
    Also, your maths are wrong... I am a 73 Kg rider and it takes me 280 Watts to climb a 6% slope at that speed... after which I am fuxxed!!!! :wink:
  • ajb72ajb72 Posts: 1,178
    Ive found these to be great, not had them an age so cant say much for durability but for everything else they've been spot on
    http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k373/a ... e-set.html

    The price is fantastic too.

    The durability of these is disappointing, even given that they are a 'racing' tyre. They roll well and seem to have plenty of grip, but the rear in particular has worn badly after just 200-300 miles. I'd go as far as to say they were worse than the old Pro Race 3's and even less durable than Ultremo ZX's. Shame, loved them in every other aspect and that is a good price you've sourced.
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,990
    Some people seem to associate light weight being the sign of a quality wheelset. The two are not necessarily directly proportionate.

    I much prefer a solid stiff set of wheels with good hubs over some light weight noodles at 13.5 stone.

    That I have some fairly light hand builts (1440g on Record rear hub / Extralite front) that are stiff as fook is a bonus :)
    They ride beautifully. Got them from http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk

    If you want factory then at your weight I'd go for Mavic Ksyrium Elites, as they are stiff too.

    1FD2DBC3-AED0-4660-B041-5802B7402B63-8167-0000071AAEA36553_zps04cd1558.jpg
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • backobacko Posts: 167
    good I just ask ( sorry to hijack thread)

    Am going to be in the market soon for a new set of wheels for my commuter/winter bike. Currently riding fulcrum 5s (have had no problems with them other than 1 snapped spoke and a broken pawl spring - no probs fixing although was quite lucky with the spoke in that the lbs had a spare to hand) and after a good 7000 miles the rims are starting to thin. More than happy to buy fuclrum 5s or even 7s but .....as spares i.e. spokes can be difficult to source, can I use spokes off my current set should a spoke go on the new set?
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