Anybody good with frame sizing???

Hurricane151

I am looking to change my specialized tarmac 58 for a Canyon Ulitmate CF SLX but I am confused over the sizing of the Canyon.

I am 6ft 2 with and I currently have the following set up on my tarmac
Frame size = 58cm
Saddle height = 80.5cm
Saddle to Handle bar reach = 57.5cm
stem length = 120mm

I think I need a 60 (XL) {similar top tube} in the SLX but when I add the body measurements into the Canyon website it suggests a 58 (L). Obviously not being able to try one I would like to get the best size with the closest fit but I am just going round in circles trying to figure it out.

If anyone has any experience and can suggest the best fit it would be appreciated.

The tamac geometry is as below




The SLX geometry is as below

Wirral_paul

A quick calculation of the geometry suggests the saddle will need to go 7mm further back on the rails (due to the 0.5deg steeper seat tube) which effectively shortens the Effective Top Tube length of the Canyon by 5 or 6mm. I recon you could go with a 58cm and fit a 13cm stem, or go with the 60cm and live with the extra 5 or 6mm reach to the bars.

Do you run spacers under your stem? If not then the 60cm frame with its 2cm longer head tube may sit you too upright.

Hurricane151

Wirral_Paul wrote:

A quick calculation of the geometry suggests the saddle will need to go 7mm further back on the rails (due to the 0.5deg steeper seat tube) which effectively shortens the Effective Top Tube length of the Canyon by 5 or 6mm. I recon you could go with a 58cm and fit a 13cm stem, or go with the 60cm and live with the extra 5 or 6mm reach to the bars.

Do you run spacers under your stem? If not then the 60cm frame with its 2cm longer head tube may sit you too upright.

Yes I run a couple of spacers currently. I suppose I forgot to say that I want this mainly for racing so happy to have a slightly more aggressive set up (more stretched / lower)

Grill

If that's the case a slightly smaller frame would be useful.

Wirral_paul

Grill wrote:

If that's the case a slightly smaller frame would be useful.

Absolutely - the 58cm will be the one to go for. You can try lowering the bars bu removing a spacer from below the stem and placing it above - and then giving yourself a couple of weeks to adjust before deciding on any cutting down of the steerer.

Hurricane151

Wirral_Paul wrote:

Grill wrote:

If that's the case a slightly smaller frame would be useful.

Absolutely - the 58cm will be the one to go for. You can try lowering the bars bu removing a spacer from below the stem and placing it above - and then giving yourself a couple of weeks to adjust before deciding on any cutting down of the steerer.

Well I spoke to Canyon today and the two people I spoke to both said I needed the 60cm frame with a 110mm stem, so that is the way I have gone. I am now concerned I've gone the wrong way. I guess i'll have to see, hopefully not an expensive mistake. That' the problem with no outlets to try these things for size.

Wirral_paul

Hurricane151 wrote:

Wirral_Paul wrote:

Grill wrote:

If that's the case a slightly smaller frame would be useful.

Absolutely - the 58cm will be the one to go for. You can try lowering the bars bu removing a spacer from below the stem and placing it above - and then giving yourself a couple of weeks to adjust before deciding on any cutting down of the steerer.

Well I spoke to Canyon today and the two people I spoke to both said I needed the 60cm frame with a 110mm stem, so that is the way I have gone. I am now concerned I've gone the wrong way. I guess i'll have to see, hopefully not an expensive mistake. That' the problem with no outlets to try these things for size.

The biggest worry for me would be that the headtube is 2cm longer than your current bike!! Unless you have 2cm of spacers, then your bars are going to be higher and not lower!! For racing, as Grill says, the tendancy would be to err on the smaller size if between two.

I'd probably be calling them back tomorrow myself - but its really your decission.

Hurricane151

as it happens I have exactly 2cm of spacers under my current stem. so I guess the 60cm would mean I would need the stem slammed.

If I was to go with the 58 would I not be looking at a 130mm+ stem though as the top tube on the canyon is quite a bit shorter than the Tarmac.

I understand the leaning on the slightly smaller frame but I did that with the Tarmac and the frame just feels a little too compact and small if that makes sense. But I obviously don't want to be riding a huge frame unnecessarily.

I hate decisions like this if I'm honest. I used to have a 60cm Cannondale Caad 9 which felt a little too big and If I was going for a Cannondale now I would go for a 58.

maddog 2

every degree of seat angle changes the (effective) top tube length by about 10mm (half a degree = 5mm)

As the Spesh has a ETT of 582mm on a SA of 73deg

the nearest Canyon frames are:
L(58) with a ETT of 566mm on 73.5deg
XL(60) with a ETT of 583mm on 73.5deg

If we 'correct' these to 73 degrees we get:
L(58) with ETT of approx. 566+5 = 571mm
XL(60) with ETT of approx. 583+5 = 588mm

So the Spesh is basically 11mm longer than the L(58) and 6mm shorter than the XL(60)

So, to mimic the stretch of the Spesh, you can either fit a longer 13cm stem to the L(58) or a shorter 11cm stem to the XL(60).

As said, given the headtube length of the L(58) is 17cm, whereas your Spesh is a whopping 20.5cm, I'd say the XL(60) at 19cm may be abetter bet. Depnds on how many spacersyou run, and how many you want to run (and not look a tad daft).

Hurricane151

maddog 2 wrote:

As said, given the headtube length of the L(58) is 17cm, whereas your Spesh is a whopping 20.5cm, I'd say the XL(60) at 19cm may be abetter bet. Depnds on how many spacersyou run, and how many you want to run (and not look a tad daft).

I must be confused here. If the Head Tube length of the spesh is 20.5 and the xl Canyon is 19 and I currently have 2cm worth of spacers under the stem would I not need extra spacers to bring the stem heights up to the same level?

I would be happy to run less spacers if required. Is it recommended to run at least 1 spacer?

Please excuse my stupidity

passout

Main thing is effective top tube length a.k.a. horizontal top tube length in my experience.
Edit - other stuff can be sorted through spacers & stem choice.

Wirral_paul

maddog 2 wrote:

As said, given the headtube length of the L(58) is 17cm, whereas your Spesh is a whopping 20.5cm, I'd say the XL(60) at 19cm may be abetter bet. Depnds on how many spacersyou run, and how many you want to run (and not look a tad daft).

Yikes - i was looking at the Canyon headtube rather than your Specialized. 20.5cm is very upright, and then 2cm of spacers on top of that must put your bars fairly level with the saddle. In that case then yes - the 60cm would be right - although not exactly a race position. 3.5cm of spacers would indeed look silly - and put a fair bit of strain on the headset.

Hurricane151

Well found this useful tool and this shows a comparison of the 58spesh and the 60 Canyon.
I'm pretty happy (I think!) that the 60 is the best way to go as it will be a bit lower at the front which is what I want but not excessively so that it will cause me issues. I have had a full bike fit done on the Spesh previously so don't want to deviate to much from the numbers but I am happier i could go lower. I think the 58 would put me too low (bottom Picture)

58 Tarmac - 60 Canyon


58 tarmac - 58 Canyon

duckson

Which tool is that?

Sorry to jump onboard but i've a very similar question regarding frame sizing and the Canyon Ultimate CF.

Comparing a 52 Canyon Ultimate CF to my medium Boardman Team Carbon. I feel the Boardman is very slightly too big, could do with a 10-20mm shorter stem (stock is 110mm).

http://www.boardmanbikes.com/road/road_team_carbon.html
http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bik ... ab-reiter2

Boardman ETT = 555mm & 73deg seat tube angle.
Canyon ETT = 533mm & 75deg seat tube angle.

I was thinking the Canyon with a 90 or 100mm stem might fit ok going off my Boardman with a 110mm stem is very slightly too long i think.
Does my assumption seem ok given the above figures?

Mccaria

H,

I am also 6'2. I have an SL3 in 58cm with a 12 cm stem and no spacers and a Canyon SLX in 60cm with a 12 cm stem and no spacers. They are both very close to a 60cm drop from the middle of the stem to the middle of the front hub, which is how I run most of my bikes. Whilst the head tube on the SL3 is slightly longer, the headset on the Canyon is slightly higher, even with the spacers removed. I go between both bikes with no major problems adjusting.

For the Canyon you can order a different, lower profile headset if you want a lower position.

Hurricane151

Mccaria wrote:

H,

I am also 6'2. I have an SL3 in 58cm with a 12 cm stem and no spacers and a Canyon SLX in 60cm with a 12 cm stem and no spacers. They are both very close to a 60cm drop from the middle of the stem to the middle of the front hub, which is how I run most of my bikes. Whilst the head tube on the SL3 is slightly longer, the headset on the Canyon is slightly higher, even with the spacers removed. I go between both bikes with no major problems adjusting.

For the Canyon you can order a different, lower profile headset if you want a lower position.

Do you race? I currently run 2cm of spacers on the Tarmac and would intend to run no spacers on the canyon to lower the front end lightly to get a better profile and stretch and less "Sit up and Beg" as I have noticed I am a little too upright at times in races. Can't go too far though as my back won't allow it!!

Mccaria

No, don't race but it is a reasonably sporty set up, if I was still racing would probably go for another 1-2 cm lower but that would mean switching the headset or using a more aggressive frame geometry. This set up works for long sportives.

Edited out the rest.
Apologies H, just realised you are looking at the 2013 slx which has a slightly long TT than the 2012 slx model, so the TT and stem comparison I was making is irrelevant. Looking at the geometry of the new SLX, the 60cm Canyon is still the closest fit and will give you a slightly more dynamic position with no spacers. As said you can also lower the front end a bit further if needed with a shallower headset.

on-yer-bike

Wirral_Paul wrote:

A quick calculation of the geometry suggests the saddle will need to go 7mm further back on the rails (due to the 0.5deg steeper seat tube) which effectively shortens the Effective Top Tube length of the Canyon by 5 or 6mm. I recon you could go with a 58cm and fit a 13cm stem, or go with the 60cm and live with the extra 5 or 6mm reach to the bars.

Do you run spacers under your stem? If not then the 60cm frame with its 2cm longer head tube may sit you too upright.

I thought that a steeper seat tube effectively lengthened the top tube because it pushes the cockpit further away from the rider? Although I can see that the saddle would need to be pushed back. The most useful measurement comparison is 'reach' and Specialized dont supply that.

duckson

That is what i was thinking, lower angle = post pointing further back.

You can work out reach using trig, see the trig calc link above that i posted.