Athena Vs Chorus

jonny_trousers
jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
edited March 2013 in Road buying advice
Could those of you in the know please give me an idea of what one groupset might offer me over the other (beyond the Chorus making my bike, and my wallet, lighter, that is).

I'm pretty keen to pull the trigger on a Campag equipped Canyon Ultimate CF and the Chorus version costs a pretty hefty £520 more than the Athena. The weight difference between the two will make very little difference to a rider like me.

Cheers
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Comments

  • tomisitt
    tomisitt Posts: 257
    Hmmm, not a huge difference except for weight and cost. FWIW, £520 is a big price differential, considering the retail price difference is nearer £300. I spent a lot of time considering these two groupsets, and went for Chorus in the end...very happy with it.
  • 16mm
    16mm Posts: 545
    Chorus is functionally equivalent to record, where as Athena is ali, and is their more basic 11 speed group.
    I'm very happy with my athena, but i'd have chorus if I had the funds.
  • shamrock134
    shamrock134 Posts: 714
    I've got Chorus and haven't used Athena, but isn't there a difference in the shifting? Athena can't do the "ultra-shifting" that Chorus/Record/SR can.

    "EXCLUSIVE ULTRA-SHIFT™ MECHANISM: 3-sprocket upshifting, and 5-sprocket downshifting in one single stroke."
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    If that's what you're paying for with Chorus, then I'd have it everytime ...
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    If you take bling out of the equation there are two Campagnolo groupsets worth buying - Veloce and Chorus. Athena scrapes in in 3rd if you absolutely must have 11 speed. This probably doesn't help as there is no Veloce option anyway! It's odd though - are there any other spec differences given that the retail price difference between Athena and Chorus is only about £350?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • iplod
    iplod Posts: 83
    The campag wizard at the loal LBS says 11's chorus is spot on, but 11's athena is a bit temprametal, as in it needs fettling a lot to keep the gearing sweet
    SOLITUDE. It's not for everyone.

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  • rc856
    rc856 Posts: 1,144
    Can't speak for Athena but I've got Chorus 10sp and after about 6 years, it's still faultless.
    That's including Scottish winters.
  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    I've got chorus, super record and Athena equipped bikes currently, although the Athena is the 2010 version which still had ultrashift. Functionally, I'd struggle to notice any difference between them. However, I would not consider the current Athena now that it has been hobbled with the removal of ultrashift. The multiple shifts is what you buy Campagnolo for.
  • skyblue337
    skyblue337 Posts: 135
    I have Athena and Chorus groupsets and haven't noticed any difference in terms of one requiring more maintenance than the other. Chorus is nicer with the multi-shift and the Chorus chainset is much easier to remove if you do your own maintenance. Given the price differential between the 2 bikes (and it appears that there are no other spec differences) the Athena model looks better value to me. Bear in mind you can get the Chorus levers for around £200 and then you'd have Ultrashift and a pair of levers you could sell (this is how my rain bike is set up)
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Worth paying for the Chorus shifter and chainset - if budget is tight, you can stick to Athena mechs and calipers
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    Oh you complete bunch of b*stards! :wink: I won't be able to live with anything less than Chorus now - although Skyblue's idea is a good one.

    Either way I'll be spending money I could probably find a more practical use for, but where's the fun in that? I'll just have to shift 500 quids worth of stuff on Ebay (nearly new wedding dress anyone?).

    I must admit, I've read reviews of the present Athena that says it requires more fettling than other Campag groupsets.

    Presently I have ultrashift Veloce/Centaur mix on the do-it-all Equilibrium and I do like being able to multi-shift.

    I've no idea why there is such a big price differential between the two Canyons, as it all looks the same speck apart from groupset and tyres. I suspect it is more that the Athena option is a particularly good deal rather than the Chorus being overpriced (there aren't many Chorus specked bikes out there for as little as £2.2K.

    Thanks all!
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    The excess price difference is irritating but even if there was no premium for the Chorus, you still only be £150 better off which hardly seems worth faffing around with buying and selling bits for.

    Best to just regard it as the Athena bike being a better bargain but you are getting a lot of bike for your money anyway so why compromise? You'll thank yourself for not being a tightwad every time you downshift and you'll thank yourself again when you need to replace the BB bearings!

    Mind you, I notice you live in London so maybe all your riding is that flat that you don't actually need multiple downshifts! :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I have Athena and SR. The Athena is brill but can't do the multiple shifts. The SR is sublime. Im sure Chorus will be too.

    The other issue with athena is the crock o'shite design of the chainset, it looks fab but woe be tide me when I have to change the bearings... You don't get that issue with chorus.
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  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,073
    Let me throw a spanner in the works, I have the 2010 carbon centaur UT and recently fitted a friends 2012 full chorus UT groupset, apart from a few grams they seemed identical, I bought myself a the centaur PT for the dry commuter and WTF have they done between 2010 & 2012 UT to PT its like a different designer nay manufacturer made them.

    If you can afford it buy the Chorus oh and by the way I went to Koblenz last year and rode the Chorus and SR on the CF & SLX - trust me you can tell the difference you really can.

    SLX with SR please 8)
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
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  • Coach H
    Coach H Posts: 1,092
    Speaking from experience;
    If you already have ultrashift you will hate losing it, hate it, absolutely hate it. Am I making this clear? :lol:
    If you already have Ultra Torque you will hate moving to Powertorque and you don't want Powertorque if you can help it as you wont be able to (easliy) maintain it. (I didn't even fit my 2012 Centaur PT chainset and fitted an UT Veloce, think I got the last compact in the World from Geoffrey Butlers :D )

    It comes down to cash. If you can spare the money it woud be worth the extra IMHO as it is still a good VFM bike (I also have a CF)
    Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Coach H wrote:
    If you already have Ultra Torque you will hate moving to Powertorque and you don't want Powertorque if you can help it as you wont be able to (easliy) maintain it. (I didn't even fit my 2012 Centaur PT chainset and fitted an UT Veloce, think I got the last compact in the World from Geoffrey Butlers :D )

    Speaks volumes that whilst you can get NOS UT and US Record and Chorus off ebay and other places seemingly without difficulty, you just don't see the Veloce to Athena Ultratorque and Ultrashift kit anymore as NOS. I think it says a lot about the relative merits of the different systems that people have scoured everywhere they can to get every last bit of the old kit rather than buy PT and PS groupsets......
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Velonutter
    Velonutter Posts: 2,437
    I have Athena 11s Ultra Torque, Record 11s, Record EPS and Super Record 11s.

    I haven't tried the powershift, but if the quality of the shifting is anything in comparison to the my version then it really is superb and apart from the weight the shifting is indistinguishable from Record.

    It really depends upon your budget, I have had Campag for years and if you set it up right there is no difference with the setup whatsoever, apart from EPS, I hear cries from people saying their LBS says it is tricky, what absolute tosh, set it up and forget it, I think some LBS's don't want you to buy Campag as they aren't agents for it or haven't been on the courses. :roll:

    Buy what fits your budget and personal taste.

    If you really want to be flash then think of Athena EPS, I wish all my bikes were EPS now 8)
  • Coach H
    Coach H Posts: 1,092
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Powershift, shifts great, is easy to set up and needs virtually no adjustment.
    It is just not as user friendly as Ultrashift, particularly on the front mech for trimming. If you have never had US you would probably be very happy (my mate is over the moon with his Athena after 25 years on various grades of Shimano) but if you have had it you KNOW the grass is greener.

    I have considered on many occasions trying to swap my carbon/red trim brake levers on my PS Centaur to my US Veloce shifter bodies. Not brave enough though as I can only forsee springs and ratchets flying everywhere and an inevetable package of bits being sent to Geoff at Mercian for a rebuild :lol:
    Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Coach H wrote:
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Powershift, shifts great, is easy to set up and needs virtually no adjustment.
    It is just not as user friendly as Ultrashift, particularly on the front mech for trimming. If you have never had US you would probably be very happy (my mate is over the moon with his Athena after 25 years on various grades of Shimano) but if you have had it you KNOW the grass is greener.

    I have considered on many occasions trying to swap my carbon/red trim brake levers on my PS Centaur to my US Veloce shifter bodies. Not brave enough though as I can only forsee springs and ratchets flying everywhere and an inevetable package of bits being sent to Geoff at Mercian for a rebuild :lol:

    Just swapping the levers isn't too big a deal - at least in as much as that you don't need to worry about any small bits vanishing. I's just a case of taking the shifters off the bike and driving the pivot pin out. Here is the Campag video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5mzR8-rh8M

    But do note that there is one crucial small element of unreality about the video. Much as the note describes, I rested my levers on a roll of gaffer tape. And rather than 3 gentle taps with the hammer to remove the shifters, it did take about fifty hard thwacks of the potential lever and thumb crushing variety to move the pins. But that is all it takes and then you can swap. That said, I reckon the old Veloce shifter levers look better than the new Centaur ones anyway. The current ones, irrc are just a carbon wrap rather than just the carbon of the Ultrashift type. People will think your shifters are crummy Centaur PS rather than cool US Veloce!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    I've got:

    Veloce/Centaur Ultrashift
    Veloce Powershift
    Athena Powershift
    Super Record Ulrashift

    It's nice to have the 5/3 Ultrashift, but I get on just fine with the 1/3 Powershift too. As for the slight hassle if you ever have to remove a Powertorque chainset - how often do you really have to change it?

    Get the Chorus groupset - it looks boss ;-)
  • Coach H
    Coach H Posts: 1,092
    Rolf F wrote:
    Coach H wrote:
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Powershift, shifts great, is easy to set up and needs virtually no adjustment.
    It is just not as user friendly as Ultrashift, particularly on the front mech for trimming. If you have never had US you would probably be very happy (my mate is over the moon with his Athena after 25 years on various grades of Shimano) but if you have had it you KNOW the grass is greener.

    I have considered on many occasions trying to swap my carbon/red trim brake levers on my PS Centaur to my US Veloce shifter bodies. Not brave enough though as I can only forsee springs and ratchets flying everywhere and an inevetable package of bits being sent to Geoff at Mercian for a rebuild :lol:

    Just swapping the levers isn't too big a deal - at least in as much as that you don't need to worry about any small bits vanishing. I's just a case of taking the shifters off the bike and driving the pivot pin out. Here is the Campag video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5mzR8-rh8M

    But do note that there is one crucial small element of unreality about the video. Much as the note describes, I rested my levers on a roll of gaffer tape. And rather than 3 gentle taps with the hammer to remove the shifters, it did take about fifty hard thwacks of the potential lever and thumb crushing variety to move the pins. But that is all it takes and then you can swap. That said, I reckon the old Veloce shifter levers look better than the new Centaur ones anyway. The current ones, irrc are just a carbon wrap rather than just the carbon of the Ultrashift type. People will think your shifters are crummy Centaur PS rather than cool US Veloce!

    Thanks for the video Rolf. Campag man must be ever so strong to tap the pin out as easily as he does :roll: . (still not sure I am brave enough :oops: )

    Both of my shifters are the same shape but the early internals of this shape were PS (my Veloce) that changed to PS for the 2012? Models (my Centaur). I [cough] upgraded [cough] from the previous shape which I had in US
    Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')
  • galatzo
    galatzo Posts: 1,295
    I've had Chorus 11 for ages now and love it.
    I used the Canyon Athena last year in Mallorca and it felt like my hands weren't working properly sometimes when I was expecting a gear change, it was that odd after having the multishift of Chorus.
    If you only have the single shift you may as well have shimano :wink:
    Yes it is quite a bit more but the multishift IS worth it plus you get full Chorus groupset which includes a carbon chainset compared to the alloy on the Athena model.
    You can't beat the multishift as you crest a climb and bang that button down while shimano users are flicking there wrists like a teenage boy watching babestation :lol:
    I've just had to get a new rear mech as mine was bent when the bike fell over. I went Athena in black for £72, a Chorus rear mech was at least £130, and can't tell the difference.
    If your anything like me it'll niggle you like hell if you get the Athena and wonder what your missing......
    25th August 2013 12hrs 37mins 52.3 seconds 238km 5500mtrs FYRM Never again.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I got alloy Athena on my cycle to work ribble for one reason only- I intend to build a classic looking steel bike after the 12 months and it is the best looking group set out there. Otherwise I'd've stumped up for chorus.
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  • 16mm
    16mm Posts: 545
    Coach H wrote:
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Powershift, shifts great, is easy to set up and needs virtually no adjustment.
    It is just not as user friendly as Ultrashift, particularly on the front mech for trimming. If you have never had US you would probably be very happy (my mate is over the moon with his Athena after 25 years on various grades of Shimano) but if you have had it you KNOW the grass is greener.

    :

    I guess this is me, happy with Athena. I'm not certain of the benefit of shifting so many spockets at one, under normal riding. Maybe for touring if you get caught out, or you freewheel a lot, but if you keep the cranks engaged you should't be 5 sprockets out? I'm clearly missing something:-)
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    16mm wrote:
    Coach H wrote:
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Powershift, shifts great, is easy to set up and needs virtually no adjustment.
    It is just not as user friendly as Ultrashift, particularly on the front mech for trimming. If you have never had US you would probably be very happy (my mate is over the moon with his Athena after 25 years on various grades of Shimano) but if you have had it you KNOW the grass is greener.

    :

    I guess this is me, happy with Athena. I'm not certain of the benefit of shifting so many spockets at one, under normal riding. Maybe for touring if you get caught out, or you freewheel a lot, but if you keep the cranks engaged you should't be 5 sprockets out? I'm clearly missing something:-)

    If you are in flattish country it probably makes little difference but in hilly terrain, with continual and sudden changes of gradient the benefits of multiple downshifts are very apparent.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I got alloy Athena on my cycle to work ribble for one reason only- I intend to build a classic looking steel bike after the 12 months and it is the best looking group set out there. Otherwise I'd've stumped up for chorus.

    Yeah, when I was considering an Enigma Esprit build I decided it had to be Athena for the retro looks alone, but on a Canyon that's not really an issue.

    Thanks for the thoughts, all.
  • I've got 2009 SR and Athena. To be honest Athena shifts just as well as the older SR, if not better (albeit lacking the multi-shift)

    My big beef is the cheap Power torque garbage. I'm not going to run another one of these chainsets and that's coming from a fan of Campag stuff. A pain to change bearings (and that's 2 years max through the winter).

    If ultra-torque was too expensive/complicated for the eastern manufacturers (powertorque is not made in Italy/Romania), why didn't Campag just go with an nice easy external BB solution like everyone else? :cry:
  • kirkee
    kirkee Posts: 369
    As a user of older Campagnolo 9 and now 10 speed components on my bike I have no experience of their 11 speed groups so if I'm incorrect forgive my lack of knowledge. Would the answer be to get the Athena with a plan to upgrade the levers to Chorus sooner or later?

    Campagnolo appear to design downgrades into some groupsets to 'force' buyers into purchasing the upper range groups. My veloce 10 levers have the multi shifts we all prefer, only chorus and record have that now. It defys logic, if it aint broke dont fix it.
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    Hi Johnny,

    I give you my view on the current Campagnolo offering: as you know well the latest lower series are pretty rubbish in terms of engineering quality, with more and more plastic bits, which in older versions were alloy (Ergos) and more and more elloy parts were before they were steel (bolts and stuff). I haven't had the chance to investigate the inner of a Chorus Ergo, but typically in the Campagnolo range, Chorus is where the quality starts and stops, as upper series are based on Chorus with cosmetic add-ons.
    So where is Athena? In my experience Athena 11 is closer to Centaur/Veloce than it is to Chorus. They use the same chainset system and the inner parts of an Ergo lever are pretty much identical. These is where the differences are, so given the choice, one would go Athena all the way with Chorus chainset and Ergos, but I appreciate this is a custom option, not necessarily available if you buy a bike...

    This is my take...
    left the forum March 2023
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    16mm wrote:
    I guess this is me, happy with Athena. I'm not certain of the benefit of shifting so many spockets at one, under normal riding. Maybe for touring if you get caught out, or you freewheel a lot, but if you keep the cranks engaged you should't be 5 sprockets out? I'm clearly missing something:-)

    I've got SR, Compact Chainset and 12-27 cassette. The multi shift comes into its own when I want to do the "double dump" - shifting both chainring and cassette onto smaller sprockets at the same time. A change in 5 sprockets is about the same ratio change as the difference between chainrings, so I simply press both "buttons" fully home and I'm done.

    Only slight snag is that I have to shift the rear a smidge before the front, otherwise the chain can miss the small chainring and fall of :(
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