Tubs tubular preglue

allmountain76
Posts: 328
I'm in the verge of buying some carbon tubs to "scratch an itch" and see if they are all they're made out to be by the efficianados.
I've had a few issues with carbon clinchers and by all accounts tubs in carbon may be a better solution in terms of rim braking surface delam etc . Plus pound for pound they are lighter and with the current push towards tubeless and clinchers generally there are some nice tubs around and great prices.
So, glue or tape? My rides are hilly and of 70 miles plus generally and ill always carry a spare plus maybe some vittoria pit stop as a first fix effort. But for the spare, should I prestretch and then apply tape leaving on the rim side backing? Or prestretch with the tape already applied? Or just prestretch and glue and go that route instead? It's the only minefield left to cross to get to tubular nirvana and any real world experience would be appreciated.
Plus, any other good tips for living with tubs? I've got a handle on folding spares, pre stretching, getting them on and off the rim etc.
I've had a few issues with carbon clinchers and by all accounts tubs in carbon may be a better solution in terms of rim braking surface delam etc . Plus pound for pound they are lighter and with the current push towards tubeless and clinchers generally there are some nice tubs around and great prices.
So, glue or tape? My rides are hilly and of 70 miles plus generally and ill always carry a spare plus maybe some vittoria pit stop as a first fix effort. But for the spare, should I prestretch and then apply tape leaving on the rim side backing? Or prestretch with the tape already applied? Or just prestretch and glue and go that route instead? It's the only minefield left to cross to get to tubular nirvana and any real world experience would be appreciated.
Plus, any other good tips for living with tubs? I've got a handle on folding spares, pre stretching, getting them on and off the rim etc.
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Tape for me as I usually only use my tubs for TT, although I have done a few crits on them with no ill effect. I found when putting on with Jantex tape to lift the tub with a pencil underneath and just roll the pencil along the rim whilst taking the backing off the tape.Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?
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I don't see your point about braking surface ? Carbon is rubbish for braking - so you want a proper surface. You can get that on clinchers too ?0
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Re braking surface - cheap clinchers delaminated partly due to rim wall thickness. Tubs don't have the same rim wall. Their construction is less condusive to overheating than a cheap carbon clincher.
Never mentioned braking performance.0 -
allmountain76 wrote:Re braking surface - cheap clinchers delaminated partly due to rim wall thickness. Tubs don't have the same rim wall. Their construction is less condusive to overheating than a cheap carbon clincher.
Never mentioned braking performance.
1) Tape is fine, but if you go down long steep descents glue offer you more safety
2) You can carry up to two spare tyres, with a bag like the XLab Kona. Stretched and with a light covering of glue or a length of spare tape.
3) glueing is a lot more straightforward than people think, just follow the instructions on the Vittoria website/tin
4) avoid Tufo and the likes, although they sound more technologically advanced with all their latex fixing products, the ride is actually crap, certainly not an improvement over your average budget clinchers. Good tubs are Vittoria CX, Veloflex and Continental sprinter/competition... and of course FMB and Dugast if you can afford themleft the forum March 20230 -
This may be of some help:
viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12910011
FWIW, I'm just about to go for the following to get my new wheels on the road:
2 X Conti Sprinter tubs
1 X Conti Giro tub - cheap and cheerful spare
1 X Mastik One Glue
Acid/flux brushes - 69p each from Amazon.
Jantex tape - PX are selling these in pre-cut sections that long enough for a single wheel (emergency use)
Sealant - Not sure which one yet.
I'm just about to use tubs for the first time and have decided to try gluing the tyres onto the rims rather than use tape. One common comment I have noticed when looking at this myself was that taped tubs can sometimes roll off the rim when the heat generated through braking on long descents can cause the adhesive to be less effective. I'm not sure is limited to longer, steeper descents in warmer climates, e.g; the Alps but thought I'd mention it as you said you said "my rides are hilly" in the OP. Someone with actual experience could (and should) correct me here if I'm wrong.
For repairs. This guy advertises in CW and has a good reputation:
http://www.tubular-repairs.com
My wheels weren't supplied with pads so I've just spent £10 on a set of the Equinox pads from PX. Apparently the black ones are the better of the two options and they are Shimano/SRAM fitment (just the pads are supplied, £4.99 a pair).
HTH - please note I've not used tubs myself I'm just passing on some of the info I've found out whilst looking at the same subject recently. I should hopefully have a set ready to go soon.“Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0 -
Jordan and Ugo, great advice.
Just one thing though. I'm thinking of the glue route as opposed to tape as i ride mainly in the Lakes and North Pennines. The Lakes has some reasonable descents hence previous issues with Taiwanese carbon clinchers.
As a get me home, as i understand it a preglued tub is as good as using tape as neither has proper time to cure and its a take it easy for the rest of the ride deal. I've heard from a few sources now that glue and tape shouldn't be mixed as ythey can counteract each other depending on combination. I liked the idea of gluing properly but using tape as a roadside repair but now I'm wary.....
After reading the masses of info out there though i'm starting to wonder why I've not tried tubs before. To me they look incredibly easy to change in the event of a flat. I cant understand the fear here. But they are also less likely to flat than a clincher in terms of pinch flats. You've also got the Tufo / Vittoria sealant option to try first as well of you do get a nick puncture.
In terms of spares the Tufo 160g looks a great option if i can find a decent used one. Probably Conti Comps or Sprinters for some peace of mind but still decent ride and rolling as the main tyres.
Thanks for all the help.0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxkrtwSNqww
Nice little tip in this vid re glueing - he leaves a small gap opposite the valve hole to enable easier removal.0 -
allmountain76 wrote:Jordan and Ugo, great advice.
Just one thing though. I'm thinking of the glue route as opposed to tape as i ride mainly in the Lakes and North Pennines. The Lakes has some reasonable descents hence previous issues with Taiwanese carbon clinchers.
As a get me home, as i understand it a preglued tub is as good as using tape as neither has proper time to cure and its a take it easy for the rest of the ride deal. I've heard from a few sources now that glue and tape shouldn't be mixed as ythey can counteract each other depending on combination. I liked the idea of gluing properly but using tape as a roadside repair but now I'm wary.....
After reading the masses of info out there though i'm starting to wonder why I've not tried tubs before. To me they look incredibly easy to change in the event of a flat. I cant understand the fear here. But they are also less likely to flat than a clincher in terms of pinch flats. You've also got the Tufo / Vittoria sealant option to try first as well of you do get a nick puncture.
In terms of spares the Tufo 160g looks a great option if i can find a decent used one. Probably Conti Comps or Sprinters for some peace of mind but still decent ride and rolling as the main tyres.
Thanks for all the help.
I would stop worrying about punctures altogether or you will never buy them...
Do you worry about clinchers sidewall ripping off and you being stranded? No, so why always looking at the negative side of things...
Tape and glue counteracting each other is the usual internet nonsense... they might not complement each other, but the sum of them being non sticky is the usual scaremongeryleft the forum March 20230 -
Yip, you're bang on. The changing of a tub or puncturing really doesnt phase me. If ive preglued a spare though, there should really be any need for tape on the roadside?0
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allmountain76 wrote:Yip, you're bang on. The changing of a tub or puncturing really doesnt phase me. If ive preglued a spare though, there should really be any need for tape on the roadside?
No, one way or the other...left the forum March 20230 -
If you haven't already bought tubs or spares then Ribble have an additional 10% offer on at the mo on near enough everything. I just bought some tubs and the other bits I need. Their prices are already pretty good TBH and the extra 10% off is a bonus.“Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0
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So when people are talking of tubs they are meaning for general use like the commute, just out for a ride with friends (if you have any! lol) etc and not just racing, TT etc?
Looking at clincher carbon/alloy (chinese) rims but this has me wondering about tubs and full carbon even for general use (as chinese full carbon tubs are cheap).Cheers, Stu0 -
duckson wrote:So when people are talking of tubs they are meaning for general use like the commute, just out for a ride with friends (if you have any! lol) etc and not just racing, TT etc?
Looking at clincher carbon/alloy (chinese) rims but this has me wondering about tubs and full carbon even for general use (as chinese full carbon tubs are cheap).
A decent tubular costs 40-60 pounds... a decent clincher tyre costs half of that... then you need to factor in the cost of glueing/taping and maybe even getting the thing fixed when/if you puncture and won't fix it yourself. On balance they are a bit expensive and time consuming to be used for commuting.
Recreational riding is about having fun and tubular tyres give a fantastic ride, so it makes sense to spend a little extra on tyres if this is your hobby... it makes more sense than spending a little extra on a carbon bottle cage, for instance. It's also down to whether you enjoy the actual process of fitting the tyres, if it's a chore that you delegate to your LBS, then don't bother
That's the way I see it and my rationale to ride tubular tyres outside a competitive environmentleft the forum March 20230 -
Getting the LBS to fit tyres, really?!
If you use some of the sealant stuff if you get a puncture is this going to render the tub useless once you get home and it should be replaced? Or can it still be used, and do you feel no noticeable difference in the ride quality, speed etc if its got some of the sealant inside the tub?Cheers, Stu0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:Recreational riding is about having fun and tubular tyres give a fantastic ride, so it makes sense to spend a little extra on tyres if this is your hobby... it makes more sense than spending a little extra on a carbon bottle cage, for instance. It's also down to whether you enjoy the actual process of fitting the tyres, if it's a chore that you delegate to your LBS, then don't bother
That's the way I see it and my rationale to ride tubular tyres outside a competitive environment
Really well put ugo! :-)0 -
I agree with Ugo about having fun and getting the best out of your riding. If I didn't already have a clincher wheel on my 'club' bike I would go tubular and indeed once the wheel is shot I really fancy a nice handbuilt tubular wheel(I dribble over pictures of Nemisis rims :oops:) Even at this stage of the year my club bike has a set of Vittoria Open Corsas on it as I want to have fun whilst out at the weekend, puncture protection is for the commuting bike.Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?
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Apologies for thread hijack - whats the best thing for cleaining carbon rims prior to gluing? Alcohol? Are alcohol prep wipes any good? (the medical ones)“Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0
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Get some pure acetone, some latex gloves and an old sock. Try and make sure it's pure acetone - the stuff for nails has things in it that I wouldn’t trust on my rims.0
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thegreatdivide wrote:Get some pure acetone, some latex gloves and an old sock. Try and make sure it's pure acetone - the stuff for nails has things in it that I wouldn’t trust on my rims.
Cool. Thanks“Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0