Cyclocross bike advice - help me choose my new bike please

jimmm

So to cut a long story short, I have decided to buy or build myself a cyclocross bike. I am currently riding a Cannondale CAAD10 105 (2012), but it is not getting ridden as much as it deserves. I have owned it for around 9 months now, and have ridden it around 300 miles. I have recently discovered that the New Forest is only a 15 minute train ride away, and I know I will get a lot more riding done there - as I like to go exploring, and have friends who ride there. Therefore I will be selling my CAAD10 (keep an eye in the trading folder), and buying a bike that can be used off road as well as on the road.

After going around in circles, I have decided (with a lot of help and advice) that a cyclocross bike is best suited to my needs. I had considered an XC mountain bike, but that seems to be overkill for what I will be using the bike for. I love the speed and light weight of my road bike, and am looking to have these aspects in my new bike. The bike will be used on road, and also on fireroad/gravel/compact mud trails and routes around the New Forest. At first the bike will not be used for racing; but I have already eyed up a few events taking place towards the end of the year. I am ideally looking for a bike that will be comfortable enough to be ridden on the New Forest bike trails for hours on end, but also fast and stiff enough to be race ready.

So this is where I need your advice please:

> Carbon, aluminium, or steel frame?
I am looking for a lightweight frame, so that kind of rules out steel already. Is carbon worth the extra expense? I know it will be the lightest, but it is also a lot more expensive than aluminium. Is carbon going to be worth the extra expense for comfort over long periods of riding off road? My CAAD10 is aluminium and I can feel pretty much every little bump in the road. I'm guessing this is going to be a lot worse off road, and won't be comfortable for long periods of time?

> Discs or cantilever?
So discs are still relatively new in professional cyclocross. However it seems a lot of pros are still choosing cantilever over them. For the sort of riding I will be doing I presume discs are going to be the better choice? Especially with the English weather!

> What manufacturer groupset is considered to be the best?
Every article/forum post I read brings up different answers here. It appears to be SRAM or Campagnolo over Shimano?

> When will the new cyclocross builds be coming onto the market?
I see that the 2013/14 Ridley X-Night is coming onto the market around June time. Will other manufacturers release their new cyclocross bikes at a similar time? The main reason I ask this, is so that I can work out when the 2012/2013 models will be going on sale, so I can hopefully save some money.

> Any bikes or frames that you guys recommend?

I haven't set myself an exact budget yet, as I haven't researched enough to understand how much bike I actually need, and how much money that will cost me. I guess it largely depends on the frame material I go for. The maximum I would ever spend would be £3,000 - but I am hoping to be some way under that if possible. I need to work out my finances first, to see if that figure is realistic. I'm hoping to get around £800 from the sale of my current bike, and then the rest will probably be on a 0% finance deal.

tl;dr
Please recommend me a light cyclocross bike, that will be comfortable for long rides off road, but also fast and stiff enough to be race ready.

Thanks in advance for any help guys

mackenziecockram

Ive recently got a felt f3x and its a wonderful crossbike, feels really quick and is surprisingly lightweight compared to my old specialized tricross. One of the small but important perks is that its a crossbike that has bottle cage mounts which will be essential on longer rides. The mehanical discs work fantastically when wet and muddy which is ideal.

meesterbond

If got on ok with the CAAD10 then what about a CAADX?
I picked up a secondhand Kenesis Evo5 last year and love it, but I didn't really do my homework and it's a real CX race bike - no bottle bosses or mudguard eyes etc - not ideal when I also wanted to use it as a winter bike.

For your sort of use and budget I'd suggest discs would be worth a go - the stopping power on Cantis is pretty limited. The last race I did I spent most of it with no braking and only 1 working gear. Great fun though.

jimmm

mackenziecockram wrote:

Ive recently got a felt f3x and its a wonderful crossbike, feels really quick and is surprisingly lightweight compared to my old specialized tricross. One of the small but important perks is that its a crossbike that has bottle cage mounts which will be essential on longer rides. The mehanical discs work fantastically when wet and muddy which is ideal.

How is the F3X on longer rides? This 2011 review http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/cyclo-cross/product/review-felt-f3x-45372 describes it as "not a machine that'll do double duty as an all-day dirt road bike" due to the stiffness. Sound perfect for the race duties though!

meesterbond wrote:

If got on ok with the CAAD10 then what about a CAADX?

The CAADX is definitely on the maybe list if an alloy frame would be ok for the longer rides?

If not there is always the option of the carbon SuperX Hi-Mod Disc. Would have to hope it goes in the sales though, as it is out of my price range.

Does anyone have any experience with either?

passout

Dale looks good. You can also get a nice alu Merida disc with 105 for a gand. The Boardman alu cross bike with discs & Apex gets great reviews. Kona Jake the snake is also great - different variations of it. There is also the Kinesis cross bikes which are very popular.

Personally though I think this is great value & planet x stuff generally rides very nicely:
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CBP ... force_bike

I would certainly go for discs. You may want to consider if you want frame fittings for full guards or not.

FransJacques

The SuperX Hi-Mod is the perfect bike in many ways. Maybe most ways. I always wanted the canti one (I hate discs for many reasons) until I rode a SuperX in a cros race and found that I wanted something stiffer.

The one I rode in a race was the canti normal modulus bike EXACTLY like this: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/can ... e-ec032145 It is the perfect bike in so many ways, esp for the price!! But being 83kgs and generating decent power, I wanted a bike that was stiffer, less comfortable, and more responsive.

I got this Van Dessel but in canti version: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/van-dessel-full-tilt-boogie/ The Van Dessel is the perfect race bike, but if it's comfort you want (and water bottle bosses) go for the Cannondale. The Full Tilt Boogie is the most immediately responsive bike I own when I put the power down and I also have a Cervelo R3SL, a Giant TCR Advanced, and a Colnago C50. Being so stiff, the steering is rock solid and felt sure-footed when I raced it with 23mm clinchers at the Cyclopark near Gravesend.

The good thing about the Wiggle bike is the frameset alone is £1000 so 1800 for a full bike is great. I strongly suggest you think about it. Don't worry about the lack of bottle bosses, a good shop can drill it and press in some Marson rivnuts. It's what they do in China anyway...

You need to answer some questions like, how tall are you?, how much do you weigh?, do you have many other wheel sets you want to swap around? If so, a disc CX bike totally limits your choices. I have 6-8 wheel sets so it's a real benefit that I can run any set with any of my bikes. Plus I know how to set up cantis so I don't worry about their performance.

jimmm

I'm 6'1", and weigh around 80kg I believe. Given my height and weight, should I be looking for a stiffer setup then? If I had to choose between speed + responsiveness over comfort, I would go for the speed and responsiveness every time.

This will be my only bike and therefore will only have the one wheel set to start with. I will be looking to invest in another one, so that I can have an on road wheel set and an off road one.

Can I ask what your reasons are for hating discs?

differentstrokes87

passout wrote:

Personally though I think this is great value & planet x stuff generally rides very nicely:
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CBP ... force_bike
/quote]

I bought one of these, got it last week. Up to now though I've probably only covered about 5 mile due to work/family.

On the quick ride I did I was impressed. It's fairly light. Gearing was good, first time I've used SRAM on a drop bar and the Avid BB7 brakes were spot on in the wet.

The only thing with this one is it doesn't have fender mounts, which I don't mind but some might.

FransJacques

jimmm wrote:

I'm 6'1", and weigh around 80kg I believe. Given my height and weight, should I be looking for a stiffer setup then?
Can I ask what your reasons are for hating discs?

If you want a bike to grow with you and get better with you then you want a good stiff carbon bike that's as close to a road bike as possible. There's nothing stopping you (or me) from riding a SuperX or a Full Tilt Boogie in the Marmotte, the Etape or a Cat 3 race as I do. The frames are 1100-1250 grams which are as light as most. You'll appreciate the stiffness when you're out of the saddle.

I dislike discs as I said - a) I know how to set up cantis and cantis are lighter. b) disc wheels have a 135mm rear spacing so you need to buy more disc wheels in order to have sets you can switch between. I have 6-8 pairs of wheels including 404s, CL24s, Hed Ardennes, RS80s, Ultegra tubeless, tubular rims and the ability to switch them out between all my bikes is a real benefit. I can test how diferent wheels feel on the same chassis or switch the same wheels between 3 different bikes to see how they affect the ride etc.

Noting wrong with discs per se. Just not nearly perfected yet.

Call Evans to test ride that SuperX with Rival, only £50 downpayment to secure it delivered to a store near you. Also the Van Dessel is available in cantis which makes it a weapon. With my best wheels my Full Tilt Boogie is about 7.4 kgs. Easliy race or sportive light.

FransJacques

Ok, the rules of the game are changing: http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... 6756?img=6

So simple it's elegant - instead of a single pot calliper with a single, flexy arm, by having a u-shaped dual sided arm you get a 2-pot brake which avoids the dragging and constant adjustment of the static pad a la BB7s.

TRP needs to go to Cyrus and sort them out next.

jimmm

My search is now in full swing as I sold my CAAD10 at the weekend.

One area that I am undecided on is whether to go with disc or cantilever. I will be riding in mostly dry weather (unless I get caught in the rain); on road, gravel, fire track and compact mud. I know that disc will give me better stopping power in wet conditions - but will it be that noticeable in dry conditions? I can buy a lot more bike if I go down the cantilever route. The bike will also be lighter, and I will have a lot more wheel choice.

What would you guys recommend?

jimmm

My budget is also going to be £1,500 (max £1,750) - rather than the £3,000 that I mentioned in the first post!

Cheshire Cat

A bike worth considering is the Giant TCX, this is a pic of mine:

viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12912529

It has been used for cross racing, raced the 3 Peaks on it, and done many, many road miles...comfortable, fairly light and very stiff. The TRP v-brakes that are fitted are easy to set up and much more powerful than canti's, the current 2013 model comes with these brakes as standard. Worth a look.

2oldnslow

Not sure if it's entirely relevant because it's outside your current budget but last year I bought myself a Focus Mares CX1. I rode it extensively in Cyprus when I lived there both on and off road, including the 3 Day Tour of Cyprus and it's by far my most comfortable bike. Not quite as light as my "good" road bike but then so what I'm 82kg.

So I'd say go for it. As to brakes well I've got Avid BB7's on my Singular Peregrine but to be honest under most conditions the Avid Ultimate Canti's on the Focus are just as effective. Noticed someone riding the Scheldeprijs yesterday chose to ride a CX1 so presumably checking it out to use in Paris Roubaix.

mroli

Condor Bivio X - you can go disc or canti (132.5 spacing at the back), rack mounts if you need them, decent weight, good looking. Apex is plenty good enough if you want to save on groupsets down from Rival

slowbike

jimmm wrote:

One area that I am undecided on is whether to go with disc or cantilever. I will be riding in mostly dry weather (unless I get caught in the rain); on road, gravel, fire track and compact mud.

I bought a spec tricross for wet/winter commuting - had the option of disc or canti and went with canti - but only because I could swap wheels with my other road bikes. It's also a touring setup so I've got bottle cage & racks/mudguard mounts.
There is a noticeable difference between the performance of my Ali road bike with carbon forks and my Ali Tricross with carbon forks - but I think that's down to body positioning and wheelset - the bikes weigh (about) the same.

The only advantage I can see for disc braking is is you're going to be getting the wheels wet & muddy or you need seriously good braking.
If you intend to eventually use this for CX racing then perhaps a disc system would be more beneficial in the long run.

carrock

I have a Specialized Crux Elite Disc and it is excellent

Although the BB5 brakes aren't the best- need constant adjustment and are noisy.

If you do go for a disc model try and get on with BB7s fitted, as I am having to retrofit BB7s to my bike, which is annoying

2oldnslow

+1 on the BB7 soooooo much easier to adjust the pads which is crucial to getting good performance

jimmm

Thank you for all the advice and feedback guys, it really is appreciated.

I think that at my budget, I am realistically looking at either an alloy disc bike, or a carbon canti bike. I presume with upgrading the canti brakes to something better like Avid Shortys or the TRP CX brakes would be more than enough stopping power for the type of riding I will be doing? Therefore a better frame would probably be the better route to go down?

Cheshire Cat wrote:

A bike worth considering is the Giant TCX, this is a pic of mine:

viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12912529

It has been used for cross racing, raced the 3 Peaks on it, and done many, many road miles...comfortable, fairly light and very stiff. The TRP v-brakes that are fitted are easy to set up and much more powerful than canti's, the current 2013 model comes with these brakes as standard. Worth a look.

How do you find the modulation of the TRPs? I have read that they have an 'on-off' personality - but this can be overcome by changing to a harder compound pad. Also what is the lever feel like?

passout

I still think planet x is your best bet - carbon and disc brakes. Nevertheless this looks great too: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=95390

Cheshire Cat

jimmm wrote:

Thank you for all the advice and feedback guys, it really is appreciated.

How do you find the modulation of the TRPs? I have read that they have an 'on-off' personality - but this can be overcome by changing to a harder compound pad. Also what is the lever feel like?

I would agree, whilst using the original TRP pads, but you do adapt to them. I switched to Swiss Stop green once the original pads had worn down, a marked difference in braking performance, a noticeable improvement in modulation - lever feedback is good with the TRP pads, and excellent with the Swiss Stops.

The main benefit is the ease of setting them up, a two minute job.

jimmm

passout wrote:

I still think planet x is your best bet - carbon and disc brakes. Nevertheless this looks great too: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=95390

I may get stick for this - but I'm not a big fan of the look of the Planet X and On One bikes. I understand that they are great value for money and come highly recommended, but the looks don't do it for me unfortunately. I know looks aren't everything, and I can't see (much of) the bike when I'm on it - but looks are kind of important to me!

Cheshire Cat wrote:

jimmm wrote:

Thank you for all the advice and feedback guys, it really is appreciated.

How do you find the modulation of the TRPs? I have read that they have an 'on-off' personality - but this can be overcome by changing to a harder compound pad. Also what is the lever feel like?

I would agree, whilst using the original TRP pads, but you do adapt to them. I switched to Swiss Stop green once the original pads had worn down, a marked difference in braking performance, a noticeable improvement in modulation - lever feedback is good with the TRP pads, and excellent with the Swiss Stops.

The main benefit is the ease of setting them up, a two minute job.

That's good to know. Thanks for the feedback

FransJacques

Given your new budget and your height/weight, you'll be kicking yourself for not getting the SuperX for £1600. Most alu bikes go up to 1200/1350 so this is a steal: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/can ... =Affiliate

At least order it to an Evans near you and test ride it.

How many bikes on your short list have you test rode yet?

jimmm

No Evans in my area Unfortunately my LBS do not allow test rides of bikes as far as I am aware, unless on the turbo trainer in store. I am going there on Saturday to see the 2013 SuperX they have in stock. From the specs I couldn't see much (if any) difference in the components to the 2012 offering?

If I really like what I see, and the ride feels good (on the turbo trainer), I will see if they will negotiate a deal near the Evans price. If not, I will order from Evans. The Mavic Ksyrium Equipe wheelset on the SuperX is marketed as road and training wheels. Will they handle gravel/firetrack/compact mud?

Also am I right in thinking that you are advised to go downs frame size on a cyclocross bike, compared to the similar road offering? For example on my CAAD10 I rode a 58 cm, should I therefore be looking at 56cm SuperX/CAADX?

slowbike

jimmm wrote:

Also am I right in thinking that you are advised to go downs frame size on a cyclocross bike, compared to the similar road offering? For example on my CAAD10 I rode a 58 cm, should I therefore be looking at 56cm SuperX/CAADX?

I did say earlier - but perhaps you missed it - my TriCross 56 has a shorter reach than my Allez 56 - other than that it's the same size. I'd be cramped on a 54cm cx frame in this brand...

Monty Dog

Also am I right in thinking that you are advised to go downs frame size on a cyclocross bike, compared to the similar road offering? For example on my CAAD10 I rode a 58 cm, should I therefore be looking at 56cm SuperX/CAADX?

Check the geometry, but you generally don't ride a CX as stretched-out or with such a big bar drop as a road set-up, plus you want a bit of extra toptube standover in case you need to put a foot down on rough terrain.

I'm sticking with rim brakes for CX at the moment - I have 4 pairs of wheels and don't really want to change them all.

jimmm

Slowbike wrote:

I did say earlier - but perhaps you missed it - my TriCross 56 has a shorter reach than my Allez 56 - other than that it's the same size. I'd be cramped on a 54cm cx frame in this brand...

I've had a look through the thread, but can't seen that :? I may be being blind though!

I guess I'll see tomorrow when I go into the LBS what the frame sizes are like, and what fits me better - I thought it was just a general rule of thumb regarding the smaller frame sizing.

Whilst looking for the best price for the SuperX, I also stumbled across a SRAM Red version for a touch over £2,000. I've not used SRAM before - so would definitely need to try before I buy to see how I find it - but is SRAM Red worth an extra £300 than an Ultegra setup?

slowbike

jimmm wrote:

I've had a look through the thread, but can't seen that :? I may be being blind though!

Or I thought I posted it and didn't - or posted on a different CX thread ...

Rod11

jimmm wrote:

is SRAM Red worth an extra £300 than an Ultegra setup?

Depends if you like it or not, my bike came with ultegra but shortly after I fell in love with SRAM so sold the ultegra and spent an extra £250 on red. Definitely worth the money in my mind.

FransJacques

jmmmm for a Super X you are a 54. Trust me, I've ridden the frame size and it was fine. My BB to saddle top is 79.5 cms and the 54 is perfect. My usual set up is a 56.5 or 57 TT and a 12cm stem for a 56cm saddle nose to mid-bar length with a 6-10cm drop depending on the type of set up (road race, road sportice or CX).

SuperX and CaadX both ride really tall, and I mean tall. Taller than my Van Dessel which has almost 1.5 cms of spacers. My other bikes are a 56 Cervelo (old geo i.e. 16 cm HT) 2 M/L Giants, and 58 cm Colnago.

You are a 54 for a Cannondale cross bike. Unless you have the lumbar flexibility of a sequoia trunk.

jimmm

Jack93 wrote:

jimmm wrote:

is SRAM Red worth an extra £300 than an Ultegra setup?

Depends if you like it or not, my bike came with ultegra but shortly after I fell in love with SRAM so sold the ultegra and spent an extra £250 on red. Definitely worth the money in my mind.

I have been told that SRAM can be unreliable, and are miles behind Shimano in reliability. Have you had any issues? What aspects of SRAM did you prefer over Shimano?