Front Mech Woes - SRAM RED Black

papa lazarou

Sorry, bit of a boring subject but I'm really stuck.

In summary:

- New bike

- 2012 SRAM RED BLACK compact groupset (chain and cassette are 2012 force)

- Front mech is conventional parrallel movement (ie: no yaw like the other RED mechs...this threw me at first)

- I have installed and adjusted loads of front mechs, so done the usual with height/alignment/limits/cable tension.

The problem is shifting up to the big ring. After 4 hours in my work stand it went into the local shop who are SRAM dealers and even they can’t get it set up to work well. It shifts, just very poorly/laboured.

Cable routing is good and cables running smoothly (it's new)

I know loads of people run a compact, but it’s a big jump for the chain to make between rings and there doesn’t appear to be many ramps on the big ring to assist the pick up.

Any suggestions as I'm pissed off I can't get this top end groupset to work.

Cheers

PL

edhornby

have you tried it with a different mech?

have you got an SRAM inner cable? they are ever so slightly slimmer than the ones everyone else uses...

napoleond

'Upgrade' to a force mech. I did the same, much better. The flexy rings and flexy front mech with red are a bobbins combo.
They will shift (obviously) but you really need to make sure there is hardly any clearance between the mech and big ring.

racingcondor

Can be a pain to set up but my Force certainly is brilliant once on.

I suspect your cables have a too tight bend or a burr on the exit. It shouldn't be the cage these days, I know SRAM added some weight to the original design (ages ago now in bike kit terms) so while it's still flexy it should be fine.

ricky1980

i got the same issue with the red black atm...the front shifting take a lot of pushing.

let me know how you managed to resolve this. I have ordered a force FD see if it helps

papa lazarou

The comment about it being flexy is bang on. It has a lot of work to do making the big jump on a compact so I suspect something more solid is in order. The side plates on the Red Black front mech squeeze together far more easily than on any other bike in the garage. So a force FD it is. Cheers for the tips.

papa lazarou

Here is a copy of an email I've just sent to SRAM UK Dist, Fisher...

Hi

Thanks for getting back to me.

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and have been building and maintaining my own bikes for years. I have unfortunately spent hours investing this problem, so let me share my findings and conclusions.

As previously described, I have spent approximately 8 hours work fine tuning this SRAM RED Black front mech without success. I have taken it to a very good local shop who are SRAM dealers and they can’t get it to work. I have watched videos on the SRAM Tech you tube channel and entered into many discussions on internet forums. I have found many people who have posted online (I can provide this evidence if required) stating that they cannot get the SRAM RED BACK front mech to work with a compact SRAM RED BLACK chainset due to the cage of the mech being too flexible.

As a professional Engineer registered with the IMechE in London, it is my opinion that the SRAM RED BLACK front derailleur is not fit for use with a SRAM RED BLACK compact chainset. In my view, the front derailleur has been designed with low weight in mind and this has come at the expense of the torsional rigidity of the cage. The front derailleur has a lot of work to do shifting between rings on a compact and I’m sorry to say, this front derailleur is not up to the job. A quick comparison shows that the side plates squeeze together much more easily than on any other front derailleur I have tested.

All evidence suggests that the SRAM Force front derailleur is much more suited to the job is question due to it’s stiffer cage and I have had to purchase one in order to get out on my bike.

I have been using Shimano transmissions for the past 20 years and other than chains, I have had no previous experience of SRAM. I was expecting good things from your top end groupset and am serious not happy about the amount of time I have had to spend on it or the fact I’ve had to buy a replacement ‘upgrade’ to the model below.

In terms of customer service, your offer of me taking the front mech back to a SRAM dealer and asking them to post it to you just so you can confirm it is exactly the same as every other SRAM RED BLACK front derailleur, then mailing it back to them who then phone me so I can go and collect it, meaning I can’t use the bike for weeks while this all goes on is not really cutting edge customer service. It’s easier for me to just buy a new one.

All in all not a very good experience. The rear mech shifts perfectly, the levers have a very positive action, but the SRAM RED BLACK front derailleur is a weak component that lets down an otherwise excellent system.

I would like this complaint escalating within your organisation and SRAM.

Yours Sincerely

xxxx
　

napoleond

Why have you not put your name on the letter but a load of kisses?

gloomyandy

I have SRAM Red 2012 front mech. with an Apex chainset and after a little fiddling this combination seems to shift fine. I did have to lower the mech until it was very close to the big ring (which is pretty much what SRAM tell you to do). On my other bike I have SRAM Red Yaw front mech with a 950 chainset (BBRight BB) and that works very well, again it needs to be positioned with the mech very close to the big ring. There seem to be a number of SRAM Red front mech variants (some with titanium cages which I think had major flex problems), mine seems to have a reasonably rigid cage (it's not SRAM Black).

Hhalo

Nice letter, but in my opinion it is missing stating what it is you want from SRAM.  Putting on my 'corporate' hat, this complaint can be treated in many different ways.  I find it is often simpler to state how they can fix this problem for you.  It could save you time and aggravation. 
Just my opinion. 

CRAIGO5000

OW SNAAAP!

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12900314

Check the internal measurements of the shift plates.