Groupset Upgrade

KentPuncheur

Hi all, looking for some advice on updrading my current groupset.

I currently run Shim 105 on my Madone, and after two years (including one winter) of heavy riding the chainset and cassette is worn. I've found the 105 shifters (the internal cable versions) to be pretty unreliable and shifting itself can be a minefield at present which is incredibly frustrating. So rather than replace the parts I thought it best to upgrade.

I'm now looking at upgrading the groupset to Ultegra for improved shifting performance and reliabiltiy. At first I though of upgrading the shifters only, but seeing the wear on the other components I thought they could do with an upgrade too.

I'm looking at a £600 outlay for the upgrade, but before I went ahead I wanted to gauge what people thought to this? Will the Ultegra groupset improve my current shifting unreliabilities? Will I be better off saving up longer for DA or even Ultegra Di2?

Answers on the back of a postcard...!

jonomc4

force

Grill

Have you ever changed the cables? I find that I go through about 3-4 sets per cassette which would explain the shoddy shifting.

andyk19

I presume by the internally routed ones you mean that it's 105 5700? If so I doubt you'd notice much difference as Ultegra is very similar to 105 5700 (part of the issue with shifting is that the undertape cabling causes increased resistance when compared to cables which emerge from the outside of the shifter, like on Sora or Tiagra or the older Ultegra and DA groups).
I run bikes with both 105 5700 and Ultegra 6700, whilst Ultegra is a bit nicer finished and the shifts are slightly better the overall 'package' from both is very similar - and I imagine the difference between Ultegra and DA is even less (as many who I have asked say that there is an even smaller performance difference between Ultegra and DA as between 105 and Ultegra).

I would suggest any of the following.
Try keeping the cables well looked after, I have used both SRAM and Shimano on road and MTB and whilst I prefer Shimano it is more sensitive to mucky cables (a particular problem for a winter bike).
Make the swap to SRAM, I used to run Rival which I was generally very impressed with and was less susceptible to dirty cables causing shift trouble - my biggest issue with it, and what caused me to move away from it, was the front shifting which is nowhere near the standard of Shimano.
Try an electric group, as you suggest, as cables will not be an issue! I haven't ever tried one though so am no expert on them.

Bobbinogs

So, to recap, the chainring, cassette and doubtless the chain all need replacing...and shifting is unreliable!

I like Ultegra, but I also like Tiagra and 105. The most important bit though is getting the setup spot on and then maintaining the cables by lubing regularly (under the BB, ingress/egress points on the outers, etc). Splash the cash if you want but hard winter riding with DA could be an expensive hobby (have you seen the price of the cassettes!!).

KentPuncheur

I've already gone through a cassette, a big chain ring, a couple of chains (preventatively more than anything) and a set of cables up to this point. Rather than replace and suffer the same inefficiencies I thought an upgrade to Ultegra would be an improvement, but I'm not so sure now?

I've no got a winter bike to take the brunt of the winter weather so would save my Madone for fair weather riding and racing (inefficient gear changes when racing is a right pain!).

I've heard that component compatibility is key to an efficient groupset, so rather than look to upgrade the shifters to ultegra, chainset to FSA (for example) and totting up the upgrades like that I thought buying the whole groupset would be best.

Grill

1 set of cable for 1 cassette? I change my cable about every 1500 miles. The quality of cables also makes a big difference.
As others have mentioned, there's isn't a massive difference between 5700 and 6700. It's smoother, but it's not night and day like going to 9000.

Bozman

I thought folk were crazy swapping a chain every 1500 miles but swapping your gear cable is utter madness or really poor maintenance.

KentPuncheur

Yeah my bike maintenance know-how was/is pretty shocking but it's getting better. It will have to for a£600 groupset upgrade!!

Thanks for all your advice, I'll see how far I can make my budget stretch, hopefully to 9000...

Grill

Bozman wrote:

I thought folk were crazy swapping a chain every 1500 miles but swapping your gear cable is utter madness or really poor maintenance.

Poor maintenance? Hardly. My bikes are regularly torn down to the frame and rebuilt. Cables are pretty much the weakest link when it comes to transmission, and suffer horrendously in the winter. I get more life out of chains, but have cables replaced sooner rather than later. My winter bike was redone last week, and with 1400 miles on it the cables, freehub, and BB needed changing.

fluff.

KentPuncheur wrote:

Yeah my bike maintenance know-how was/is pretty shocking but it's getting better. It will have to for a£600 groupset upgrade!!

Campag Athena and a new freehub for your wheels?

Anonymous

What about DA7800? From what I gather, 7800 is meant to be the nicest shifting of the 10sp range, usually available for around 110/120 for used shifters.

I hear 9000 is amazing, but that's a whole new can of worms.

rolf_f

Grill wrote:

1 set of cable for 1 cassette? I change my cable about every 1500 miles. The quality of cables also makes a big difference.

I'm more alarmed by the 1 chainring per cassette thing! People do have expensive maintenance. I replace cables when they break (or more ideally, nearly break!). My Ribble (Campag Centaur) has gone through one set of gear cables and no brake cables in 8000 miles of all weather riding. Shifting seems fine!

The front brake cable of my Dawes lasted 23 years and 15000 miles and is still fine!

Bozman

coriordan wrote:

What about DA7800? From what I gather, 7800 is meant to be the nicest shifting of the 10sp range, usually available for around 110/120 for used shifters.

I hear 9000 is amazing, but that's a whole new can of worms.

7800, i'll swap it when it fails because it's faultless. I've got Ultegra 6700 on one bike and that isn't a patch on 6600, i even thought about swapping the 6700 for a used 7800.

marcusjb

Grill wrote:

Bozman wrote:

I thought folk were crazy swapping a chain every 1500 miles but swapping your gear cable is utter madness or really poor maintenance.

Poor maintenance? Hardly. My bikes are regularly torn down to the frame and rebuilt. Cables are pretty much the weakest link when it comes to transmission, and suffer horrendously in the winter. I get more life out of chains, but have cables replaced sooner rather than later. My winter bike was redone last week, and with 1400 miles on it the cables, freehub, and BB needed changing.

I'm with Grill - though maybe not quite as regularly (not far off though - probably 3 per cassette). You can sort of tell when gear cables have gone past their best - you can just never quite dial in perfect shifting. Brake cables are the same - lifeless mushy braking.

I have had to extract broken cables from fellow rider's shifters (a pain in the bum job especially by the roadside), but never my own. I want to avoid the hassle - so I change the cables regularly (can't tell you how many miles - though this year, I have started logging every mile and every component change for the first time in my life). Especially over winter, they really do take a battering as Grill says.

Cable inners are one of the few consumables on modern bikes that are still pretty cheap for even decent ones! So no point in putting off changing them. It's like getting new transmission again - crisp slick changes are back!