Banesto and Conconi

timoid.
timoid. Posts: 3,133
edited February 2013 in Pro race
Big Mig doping?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report- ... ni-clients

Colour me surprised.
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
«13

Comments

  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    A close friend was at university with a guy who was involved in the anti-doping process at the Tour de France back when Indurain was dominating. I can remember the guy explaining how most of the urine samples they took were simply thrown away and never tested. He also said that it was well known in those circles that big Mig was on so many drugs that his body would probably fall apart if he took any more.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Anyone who professes shock or surprise, needs their head examining.

    The entire period was what it was. Came to terms with that a while ago.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    2 Giros and 5 TDF wins in 5 years...Miguel needs to come in and be part of the solution. Potentially he might be living as a millionaire off a huge economic fraud....if he did dope then he should answer for it at an arbitration. I fear pulled off one of the biggest heists in the history of sport too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    Dave_1 wrote:
    2 Giros and 5 TDF wins in 5 years...Miguel needs to come in and be part of the solution. Potentially he might be living as a millionaire off a huge economic fraud....if he did dope then he should answer for it at an arbitration. I fear pulled off one of the biggest heists in the history of sport too.
    It was twenty years ago. Who gives a toss? At some point you just accept what happened happened. Otherwise what's the next step? Digging up Fignon's corpse and asking it about steroid abuse?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    2 Giros and 5 TDF wins in 5 years...Miguel needs to come in and be part of the solution. Potentially he might be living as a millionaire off a huge economic fraud....if he did dope then he should answer for it at an arbitration. I fear pulled off one of the biggest heists in the history of sport too.
    It was twenty years ago. Who gives a toss? At some point you just accept what happened happened. Otherwise what's the next step? Digging up Fignon's corpse and asking it about steroid abuse?
    Well Fignon admitted what doping he did. It was 13 years ago, who gives a toss? Nothing is time barred now. Cipo being done now too.. Who gives a toss? CONI does..hope Spain does...millionaire EPO users should not be let off
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    edited February 2013
    Dave_1 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    2 Giros and 5 TDF wins in 5 years...Miguel needs to come in and be part of the solution. Potentially he might be living as a millionaire off a huge economic fraud....if he did dope then he should answer for it at an arbitration. I fear pulled off one of the biggest heists in the history of sport too.
    It was twenty years ago. Who gives a toss? At some point you just accept what happened happened. Otherwise what's the next step? Digging up Fignon's corpse and asking it about steroid abuse?
    Well Fignon admitted what doping he did. It was 13 years ago, who gives a toss? Nothing is time barred now. Cipo being done now too.. Who gives a toss? CONI does..hope Spain does...millionaire EPO users should not be let off
    Well how far back do you want to go? Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi, Pelissier? Shall we start suing Garin's great-grandkids?
    And why should Fignon be let off just because he admitted it? I assume his family lives in a nice house paid for by his earnings. Why shouldn't they be thrown out on the streets?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    RichN95 wrote:
    Well how far back do you want to go? Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi, Pelissier? Shall we start suing Garin's great-grandkids?
    In an attempt to make the whole T&R thing even more unworkable, Armstrong suggested it should involve anybody still living who had ever been on a podium in a GT or at the World Champs. Can you imagine how many people that must be!?
  • fidgetyphil
    fidgetyphil Posts: 80
    I did a conconi test once. Should I hand myself in?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,931
    We were nearly taking about racing there for a while :(
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    fidgetyphil wrote:
    I did a conconi test once. Should I hand myself in?


    Yes. Alternatively you can pay us all hush money :)
  • fidgetyphil
    fidgetyphil Posts: 80
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    fidgetyphil wrote:
    I did a conconi test once. Should I hand myself in?


    Yes. Alternatively you can pay us all hush money :)

    You can have 10% of my life times winnings.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    fidgetyphil wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    fidgetyphil wrote:
    I did a conconi test once. Should I hand myself in?


    Yes. Alternatively you can pay us all hush money :)

    You can have 10% of my life times winnings.


    Great. Will that amount to a small pile of beans...or less?
  • fidgetyphil
    fidgetyphil Posts: 80
    You might struggle to buy a pie and chips with it, I'm afraid.
  • mr_poll
    mr_poll Posts: 1,547
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    2 Giros and 5 TDF wins in 5 years...Miguel needs to come in and be part of the solution. Potentially he might be living as a millionaire off a huge economic fraud....if he did dope then he should answer for it at an arbitration. I fear pulled off one of the biggest heists in the history of sport too.
    It was twenty years ago. Who gives a toss? At some point you just accept what happened happened. Otherwise what's the next step? Digging up Fignon's corpse and asking it about steroid abuse?
    Well Fignon admitted what doping he did. It was 13 years ago, who gives a toss? Nothing is time barred now. Cipo being done now too.. Who gives a toss? CONI does..hope Spain does...millionaire EPO users should not be let off
    Well how far back do you want to go? Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi, Pelissier? Shall we start suing Garin's great-grandkids?
    And why should Fignon be let off just because he admitted it? I assume his family lives in a nice house paid for by his earnings. Why shouldn't they be thrown out on the streets?

    Playing devils advocate here at what point should people go back - you argue 20 years is too far and we shouldnt give a toss, some might argue that 7/8 years is ancient history - what point is relevant to crawl all over.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    edited February 2013
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    2 Giros and 5 TDF wins in 5 years...Miguel needs to come in and be part of the solution. Potentially he might be living as a millionaire off a huge economic fraud....if he did dope then he should answer for it at an arbitration. I fear pulled off one of the biggest heists in the history of sport too.
    It was twenty years ago. Who gives a toss? At some point you just accept what happened happened. Otherwise what's the next step? Digging up Fignon's corpse and asking it about steroid abuse?
    Well Fignon admitted what doping he did. It was 13 years ago, who gives a toss? Nothing is time barred now. Cipo being done now too.. Who gives a toss? CONI does..hope Spain does...millionaire EPO users should not be let off
    Well how far back do you want to go? Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi, Pelissier? Shall we start suing Garin's great-grandkids?
    And why should Fignon be let off just because he admitted it? I assume his family lives in a nice house paid for by his earnings. Why shouldn't they be thrown out on the streets?
    EPO skewed the results so severely according to many that that era of . Roids didn't stop best winning many say. Draw the line at epo era. Leave 1980s be.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Dave_1 wrote:
    EPO skewed the results so severely according to many that that era of EPO users may have been not very good at all. Roids didn't stop best winning many say. That where we can draw the line of just ebd the hypoc

    According to many, cheating skewed results...
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    EPO skewed the results so severely according to many that that era of EPO users may have been not very good at all. Roids didn't stop best winning many say. That where we can draw the line of just ebd the hypoc

    According to many, cheating skewed results...
    Roids couldn't stop the best ...epo could. Lemond was clean and beat roid riders.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    tumblr_miu0m4SBbo1qcn3m5o1_1280.png

    Hope this helps
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Roids couldn't stop the best ...epo could. Lemond was clean and beat roid riders.

    There is a competative advantage to be gained from steroids though, isn't there? Why else would anyone take them? And they are on the baned list as well, aren't they? Doesn't matter how good Lemond might have been.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    The statute of limitations is not valid if CONI are to be believed. Haven't CONI opened an inquiry into super mario!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,104
    iainf72 wrote:
    tumblr_miu0m4SBbo1qcn3m5o1_1280.png

    Hope this helps

    It does, but if the conspiracy is large enough then it can include offences committed beyond the statute of limitations.

    That should help some more.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Roids couldn't stop the best ...epo could. Lemond was clean and beat roid riders.

    There is a competative advantage to be gained from steroids though, isn't there? Why else would anyone take them? And they are on the baned list as well, aren't they? Doesn't matter how good Lemond might have been.
    So how far back to go greased? And thanks for teaching me about roids and the banned list...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    USADA also got past the SoL with Armstrong because he'd lied under oath. Big Mig's never been in that position.

    WADA's bringing in longer SoL period, from 8 years to 14 - but effective 1 Jan 2015

    I think that even if they had the appetite for it, an AD agency would struggle with a case dating back to the 90s - and this is the Spanish AD. They are NEVER going to go after Mig and Banesto.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    USADA also got past the SoL with Armstrong because he'd lied under oath. Big Mig's never been in that position.

    WADA's bringing in longer SoL period, from 8 years to 14 - but effective 1 Jan 2015

    No - When LA's case was first brought, he was inside limitations. If he'd contested, he'd still be a 5 time winner as SoL would've been in effect.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Dave_1 wrote:
    So how far back to go greased? And thanks for teaching me about roids and the banned list...

    Dunno, but it needs some relivance to what's happening today, don't you think? I can't see how going after Indurain will change anything.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Dogs. Let. Lie. Sleeping. Reorganise those words into a sentence.

    Can we not move on? This was now 20 years ago. Statute of limitations or not, trawling up crap from this long ago will do no-one any good. Leave it be.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    I'm kind of with you on that
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,104
    I kind of agree. But the same management team behind Banesto are still very active within the sport, I think that's more where my issue with this lies.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    andyp wrote:
    I kind of agree. But the same management team behind Banesto are still very active within the sport, I think that's more where my issue with this lies.


    Ok, yeah, good point....Eusebio Unzué is a massive case in point
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    andyp wrote:
    I kind of agree. But the same management team behind Banesto are still very active within the sport, I think that's more where my issue with this lies.

    That's fair enough, so target any investigation around him and the rest of the management team.

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