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Canyon Ultimate Al geometry

ryanincontrolryanincontrol Posts: 73
edited February 2013 in Road buying advice
Hi!

I'll be buying a Canyon road bike soon. As the CAAD 8 51cm fits me well, I'd like to buy the Canyon as close to the CAAD's geometry as possible. I'm 5'7 with 30in inseam. Canyon's sizing guide recommends I get a XS (50cm). However, I reckon I'll be better off with a Small (53cm).
Here is the comparison of Geo's:

=++++.............Caad8 (51cm).........Canyon XS..........Canyon Small
Top tube length......53cm.....................52.5cm.................53.7cm
seat tube length.....51cm.....................47.5cm.................51.5cm
seat tube angle......74.5deg..................73.5deg................73.5 deg
head tube length......14cm.....................12.5cm.................13.8cm
head tube angle......72.5deg..................71deg..................71.5deg
wheelbase............97.9cm...................97.5cm.................98.4cm
stack....................54.4cm...................52.6cm.................54cm
reach...................37.7cm....................36.7cm.................37.6cm


I know the Canyon (small) has a 70mm longer top tube than the CAAD but the Canyon comes with 90mm stem whereas the CAAD it's 100mm. Reach is more or less the same. I can ask Canyon to swap the stem for an 80 stem on time of buying, if that helps.

So what should I get a Canyon XS or Small? :):):)
Padyak rider

Posts

  • ShutUpLegsShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    Aesthetically the xs will look a small bike, but may fit better. Stack & reach are similar on the small and the CAAD but the Canyon has a higher wheelbase.
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,878
    This is what comes of Canyon changing their geometry on their bikes. Much better when they were offered in 2cm increments.
  • mikeneticmikenetic Posts: 486
    Respectfully, I disagree with ShutUpLegs.

    This is all obviously done without seeing your setup on your current bike, but I would say the Small is much more likely to fit you well, if your 51cm Cannondale fits you well.

    Here's why.

    The stack and reach measurements on the 51cm CAAD are almost identical to the small Canyon, and these are important measures. If the CAAD fits well, so should the Canyon in a small, with the same (100mm) stem length.

    You may need to set your saddle further forward on the Canyon to get the position of your kneecap relative to the pedal axle the same (i.e. make the adjustment to account for your for femur length).

    If the overall TT is longer, but the reach is the same, then the extra length has to come behind a vertical line drawn from the BB centre up to the TT. That's being caused by the seat tube having a slacker angle on the Canyon S than the CAAD 51. Therefore, you need to slide the saddle further forward to compensate and maintain the same position across the two bikes.

    The Canyon VCLS seatpost offers a really broad range of adjustment, as the clamp lets you change the setback from as little as 15mm right up to 35mm, plus you have the saddle rail adjustment too. So you should be able to get the position dialled in well.

    Out of interest, how much seat post do you have sticking out on your current bike, and what's the drop from the top of the saddle to the centre of your bars? How much setback is there on your current post, and whereabouts on the rails is it positioned?

    PS: the TT is 7mm longer, not 70mm like you say in the original post. If it was 70mm longer you'd be in a spot of bother. :D
  • ryanincontrolryanincontrol Posts: 73
    Many thanks for the replies.
    mikenetic wrote:

    PS: the TT is 7mm longer, not 70mm like you say in the original post. If it was 70mm longer you'd be in a spot of bother. :D

    You're right it's 7mm not 70mm. Lol

    mikenetic wrote:

    Out of interest, how much seat post do you have sticking out on your current bike, and what's the drop from the top of the saddle to the centre of your bars? How much setback is there on your current post, and whereabouts on the rails is it positioned?

    :D


    Seatpost is about 4in. Drop from saddle to bars is 2in. Seatpost setback is 20mm ( I think). Saddle is positioned with 5mm left at the front.


    Will the stock 90mm stem be alright on the small Canyon?



    Thanks,
    Ryan
    Padyak rider
  • mikeneticmikenetic Posts: 486
    If you're comfy with a 100mm stem, based on the geometry comparisons I'd stick with that if you can.

    I found Canyon's customer service to be pretty helpful (I own a CF 9.0) ask them if they'll swap it for you. They may charge a small fee, but you may as well try to get what you know works for you.

    By the sounds of things you'll have no bother getting the saddle in the same relative location either.
  • mikeneticmikenetic Posts: 486
    Hey Ryan, I've just been thinking a bit more about your fit, and I think it might be a bit more complicated than I first thought.

    A 50mm drop between the top surface of your saddle and the handlebar isn't that much, I'm not much taller than you and by comparison mine is 85mm. That's been set after a pro bike fit, and isn't all that radical.

    I actually think both the XS and S would fit, but the XS is going to offer you a more racy position. The stack height is about 2 cm lower, so it's going to drop the bars a bit. Also generally, if you're between two sizes it's easier to make a smaller bike fit than a larger one.

    A lower front is going to affect the distance between the saddle centre and the bars, so a shorter stem would bring it a bit closer to you, compensating for the drop. I think the 80mm they offer as standard on the XS is too short though.
  • ShutUpLegsShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    mikenetic wrote:
    I actually think both the XS and S would fit, but the XS is going to offer you a more racy position. The stack height is about 2 cm lower, so it's going to drop the bars a bit.

    Depends on what position the OP wants then really.
  • gwillisgwillis Posts: 998
    Don't know if this helps . I'm 5ft 8 and went fir a size small in the ultimate al. I ride a small Scott cr1 and bianchi Infiniti both 53 top tubes and I have 110 stems on both . The canyon I seem to be able to run a 120 stem and alot lower . It's certainly more racey. I did the online sizing guide and also spoke directly to canyon who confirmed this . As I said its more censored in the air and head down but you have got some scope to adjust this given the seat post and fork steerer height .
    Good choice on the bike ;)
  • ryanincontrolryanincontrol Posts: 73
    ShutUpLegs wrote:
    mikenetic wrote:
    I actually think both the XS and S would fit, but the XS is going to offer you a more racy position. The stack height is about 2 cm lower, so it's going to drop the bars a bit.

    Depends on what position the OP wants then really.

    Actually, I do prefer a less racy position. I join sportive events and not really after speed but the miles.
    I think the small will suit my riding position better.


    Thanks for all the input guys. Will be visiting the Canyon website shortly.

    Cheers,
    Ryan
    Padyak rider
  • graham_ggraham_g Posts: 652
    Small. Assuming the same crank length, you'll need to have the saddle 10mm further forward on the Canyon to get the same position (to make up for the different seat angle - 1 degree lower angle on the canyon effectively adds 10mm to TT). So, when taking account of the different seat angle, the ETT length on your caad and the small canyon are pretty much identical (within 3mm anyway), so just stick with the same length stem as you have currently.
    Different headset stack heights mean you'll need to measure saddle>bar drop to get that right between the two, but there's probably very little in it. With the XS you'd need a longer stem but risk needing too many HS spacers in order to get the bars up to the right height (you might even run out of steerer - 35mm is max spacing recommended on a carbon steerer).
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