Van Nicholas Euros vs Ventus?

luv2ride

Anyone know if there are any major differences between these frames? Looking at previous posts some say that the Ventus is the replacement to the Mistral, whilst others have said the Ventus is the replacement for both the Mistral AND the Ventus. Hired a Euros in Mallorca a couple of years back and loved it, and had been thinking about going Ti in the new year....

verylonglegs

Probably best to ring fatbirds in Hunstanton, they've been selling all things Van Nicholas for many years now.

banditvic

Planet x doing Euros fo £499 at the moment.

luv2ride

only in 50cm I think though...

bmxboy10

My understanding is it replaces both the Mistral and Euros. Best thing is to email VN they are very quick to respond to customers questions. Also check out thier FB page as i think this was a thread on their home page.

Ventus appears to have the same geo as Euros and Mistral but with the Mistral straight rear stays and the euros engraved VN logo on the head tube.

passout

Look at planet X before buying - I'm sure the frames were half price....

exlaser

i think solboy 10 is correct.

if you go for the ventus you will not be disapointed.

i have just picked up my ventus sc and its a lovely piece of kit. am so pleased with it i can not put it into words!
for the price i dont think can get any better ti bike( thats why i went for it) unless you can get a discounted frame and build it up yourself.
i got mine from john atkins cycles in leamington spa and i cannot speak highly enough about the service i received. 8)

flasher

Think you'd be pleased with any of the bikes mentioned, I have a Euros and love it, if it and the Mistral are being discontinued look for discounts, rather than paying full whack for the Ventus.

paul_smith_srcc

solboy10 wrote:

...Ventus appears to have the same geo as Euros and Mistral but with the Mistral straight rear stays and the euros engraved VN logo on the head tube.

Correct, Mistral and Euros shared geometry but were slightly different frames, the Mistral had straight seat stays and head tube sticker, the Euros curved seat stays and head tube engraving, for 2013 the two bikes share the same frame and name, evolving as 'Solboy10' referenced, both now have straight seat stays (chain stays are curved) and head tube engraving.

This simplifies things for Van Nicholas but has caused some confusion for potential customers as they list them slightly differently on their site, Mistral was a complete bike with a set spec' to effectively hit a price point and still will now it becomes 'Ventus SE', The Euros is a bike where you could chose the finishing kit and still does now that it becomes the 'Ventus', note the 'SE' doesn't appear on the frame, they are identical, although if you select the 'purchase frame' option you will see the Ventus will offer alternatives, headset options etc, plus the 'SE' model will also default to a cheaper fork.

Paul

pkripper

Paul_Smith SRCC wrote:

solboy10 wrote:

...Ventus appears to have the same geo as Euros and Mistral but with the Mistral straight rear stays and the euros engraved VN logo on the head tube.

Correct, Mistral and Euros shared geometry but were slightly different frames, the Mistral had straight seat stays and head tube sticker, the Euros curved seat stays and head tube engraving, for 2013 the two bikes share the same frame and name, evolving as 'Solboy10' referenced, both now have straight seat stays (chain stays are curved) and head tube engraving.

This simplifies things for Van Nicholas but has caused some confusion for potential customers as they list them slightly differently on their site, Mistral was a complete bike with a set spec' to effectively hit a price point and still will now it becomes 'Ventus SE', The Euros is a bike where you could chose the finishing kit and still does now that it becomes the 'Ventus', note the 'SE' doesn't appear on the frame, they are identical, although if you select the 'purchase frame' option you will see the Ventus will offer alternatives, headset options etc, plus the 'SE' model with also default to a cheaper fork.

Paul

I bought my Euros off Paul pre-Christmas, and he knows his stuff! cracking bike (thanks Paul!)

MrTomEC

Slightly off topic but I'm just looking at either a Ventus SE or a Specialized Roubaix. Has anybody got / ridden a Van Nicholsas who would care to offer a view of how it stacks up against a relaxed geomatry carbon bike?

paul_smith_srcc

MrTomEC wrote:

Slightly off topic but I'm just looking at either a Ventus SE or a Specialized Roubaix. Has anybody got / ridden a Van Nicholsas who would care to offer a view of how it stacks up against a relaxed geomatry carbon bike?

I have ridden both a Ventus and Roubaix, any bike is always the sum of the parts of course, a stiffer frame can be tuned to be more comfortable as a finished bike with a more comfortable wheel package for example, so if we assume both the Ventus and Roubaix were the same specification interms of finishing kit then for sure they will feel different but both are very good Sportive bikes, which is to be expected as that is what they are both set up to be, neither are their respective rigid race bike focused models.

The most significant differences will be in the bike fit, Roubaix is slightly higher at the front end, so for those who need that height then that is a plus of course, that said most can achieve sufficient height on a more standard set up, I for example do suffer with a bad back, I struggle bending down to put my socks on in the morning and when I do a straight leg toe touch I get as far as my knees then start crying for my mum; yet I cope with the position below on my mile eating Van Nicholas Audax bike ( bike fit wise Audax and Sportive bikes are often similar), that picture was taken when I was feeling OKish in the bad back department but when it gets worse I flip the stem to the raised angle if I need height.

MrTomEC

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your opinion, much appreciated. I was interested in your comment "so if we assume both the Ventus and Roubaix were the same specification interms of finishing kit then for sure they will feel different but both are very good Sportive bikes" Would you expand on the differences such as one feeing more responsive, cone being gentile over poor road surfaces or is it just that the feel different but not in such specific ways?

I've got road tests booked on a Ventus and a Roubaix tomorrow so will report back.

paul_smith_srcc

MrTomEC wrote:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your opinion, much appreciated. I was interested in your comment "so if we assume both the Ventus and Roubaix were the same specification interms of finishing kit then for sure they will feel different but both are very good Sportive bikes" Would you expand on the differences such as one feeing more responsive, cone being gentile over poor road surfaces or is it just that the feel different but not in such specific ways?

I've got road tests booked on a Ventus and a Roubaix tomorrow so will report back.

Even identical spec' bikes seldom feel identical to ride, it only takes a few items to differ, tyre pressures may, cleaner less worn transmission or one is set up bike fit wise slightly more accurately for example; so yes expect the Ventus to feel different to the Roubaix. Differences are of course down to the individual to perceive and then what they each quantify as a significant difference, so your doing the right thing testing them yourself so that you can draw your own conclusions.

If both are the correct size and set up correctly bike fit wise and with tyres at the same pressure etc then yes you will feel a difference, which may help you come to a clear conclusion but vice versa it may make things much worse! I always ask a customer when they walk a bike back into the store what they thought and could they tell a difference, "Yes Paul they did feel different but they both felt good, I want them both now.....". There is no theme, these two bikes are often tested together as they are each other brands Sportive bike, in other words one rider may say one felt faster, smoother, better and another will say the other, but in reality it's the bike fit that has the biggest difference as Roubaix is higher at the front end, Van Nicholas have their Zephyr model that ticks that box more than the Ventus does, note the Van Nicholas bikes below can be set with 30mm spacers under the stem so expect the Zephyr to be nearer the Roubaix in from end height.





Another way of looking at this is a modern Sportive bike is a bike dialed back from a modern race bike set up, as many of the full on race bikes are now so focused that the majority find them to full on in many ways, to long and low, stiff and harsh to ride, gears to large, all the add up to a sum of the parts more conducive to pain gain and victory and chasing marginal gains, or if you like they are trying to inspire you to ride a mile an hour faster, more than the are a mile further, which is why the Sportive bikes have become so popular as they are trying to put a tick in the mile further box as well. In the 90s' we could ride our race bikes more as bikes as they were not as full on as they are now and in some ways a Titanium bike is more of a 90s' race bike that is still made. The Roubaix is dialed back more than most, the majority of other manufacturers will for example cater for a higher front end purely with more spacers under the stem, like the Ventus, Van Nicholas are no doubt aware how popular the Roubaix is which is why I assume they updated their Zephyr model which until a few years ago was more like the height of the Ventus.

If like many you come back feeling a difference but liking both, which is to be fair the norm', then in some ways the decision is easier, both bikes look very different, normally one 'floats their boat' more than the other so in short they have the one they really really wanted to like in the first place Let's face it many of us buy a bike with our heart as well as our head, ticking the second box is vital but if one ticks the other box more as well then there's your answer.

Happy shopping

Paul

exlaser

paul, what a great post.

its great ( and unusual on any forum ) to get such clear balanced advice.

MrTomEC

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for your considered reply and what scene you make too.

I have today rest ridden a Van Nicolas Yukon and a Specialized Roubaix. The test ride on the Roubaix was at a Specialised concept store and I was pretty impressed with them, they took some time to fit the demo bike to me and listened to what I had to say about how I like my stem hight etc. I'm just back from a little 10 miles on some of my local roads on the Roubaix and the bottom line is that I don’t like it. It feels soft, sluggish and really hard to get up to speed. Yes it is very comfortable and I'm a big fan of that long head tube, but I’ve ridden two now and they both felt like there was layer of treacle between me and the road :-( I really wanted to like the Roubaix but riding it make me feel disappointed.

The Yukon I rode this morning was lovely and smooth and quicker up to speed than the Roubaix, very stable on a fast descent and surprisingly confidence inspiring in a fast corner. The down sides were that it was a bit soft and not exactly electric on take off. The dealership I was at don't have a Ventus in my size that I could take out, the Yukon ride was really just to give me an idea of how a Titanium frame would feel and I'm told the Ventus should feel a little sportier with it's slightly shorter Chain stay.

So, although I'm slightly grief stricken that I don't like the Roubaix it has been useful to eliminate it from the mix. I think realistically I need to find a correctly sized Ventus to test ride before parting with some cash.

T.

paul_smith_srcc

MrTomEC wrote:

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for your considered reply and what scene you make too.

I have today rest ridden a Van Nicolas Yukon and a Specialized Roubaix. The test ride on the Roubaix was at a Specialised concept store and I was pretty impressed with them, they took some time to fit the demo bike to me and listened to what I had to say about how I like my stem hight etc. I'm just back from a little 10 miles on some of my local roads on the Roubaix and the bottom line is that I don’t like it. It feels soft, sluggish and really hard to get up to speed. Yes it is very comfortable and I'm a big fan of that long head tube, but I’ve ridden two now and they both felt like there was layer of treacle between me and the road :-( I really wanted to like the Roubaix but riding it make me feel disappointed.

The Yukon I rode this morning was lovely and smooth and quicker up to speed than the Roubaix, very stable on a fast descent and surprisingly confidence inspiring in a fast corner. The down sides were that it was a bit soft and not exactly electric on take off. The dealership I was at don't have a Ventus in my size that I could take out, the Yukon ride was really just to give me an idea of how a Titanium frame would feel and I'm told the Ventus should feel a little sportier with it's slightly shorter Chain stay.

So, although I'm slightly grief stricken that I don't like the Roubaix it has been useful to eliminate it from the mix. I think realistically I need to find a correctly sized Ventus to test ride before parting with some cash.

T.

Quite a common response, many are underwhelmed when they return from a test ride on a Sportive bike (or Audax in the case of the Yukon) stating just as you have that they feel slow. Often, as in nearly always, the bike wins them over, as the perception of the reduction in speed often doesn't match the actual reduction in mph, it's when they get back from a long ride and see that they haven't gone much slower that it wins them over, especially as they often feel less battered than they would on a faster set up, at the end of a long ride less battered often equates to more mph of course.

Definitely worth testing all the bikes on your short list, the Ventus is indeed set up to be quicker than the Yukon, for sure it is always the sum of the parts, so quicker again if the finishing kit is set up to also be faster, it will often have lighter stiffer wheels with lighter faster tyres for example. I have Mavic Equipe wheels with Continental Ultra gator skins on my Yukon in the thread above, but on my Chinook below I have Mavic Kysrium SL wheels with Vittoria Open Corsa CX tyres which are I have to say as far as i'm concerned much quicker.



Paul

calvjones

The Yukon will be considerably different to a Sportive bike: Mine (well, a similar Airborne Carpe Diem) has bosses to carry everything (so frame a bit heavier) and longer, more spacious and stable geometry. The Yukon may have been shod with chunky wheels too hence a bit slow?

I'd bloody love a VN sportive bike too (although the Carpe was great on the Flanders route to be fair). Pity I have no cash or room! Something from Spesh? Meh.

paul_smith_srcc

calvjones wrote:

The Yukon will be considerably different to a Sportive bike: Mine (well, a similar Airborne Carpe Diem) has bosses to carry everything (so frame a bit heavier) and longer, more spacious and stable geometry. The Yukon may have been shod with chunky wheels too hence a bit slow?

I'd bloody love a VN sportive bike too (although the Carpe was great on the Flanders route to be fair). Pity I have no cash or room! Something from Spesh? Meh.

Yes the Airborne Carpe Dieme evolved to be the Van Nicholas Amazon, the Yukon will be closer to the feel of a Sportive bike, if you like dialing back how fast the bike will feel in reverse order, Race bike-Sportive bike-Audax bike-Touring bike.

The Airborne Carpe Dieme-Van Nicholas Amazon is essentially a touring bike, so the geometry is set up slightly more for stable comfortable load carrying than say than an Audax spec' Yukon. As always it's the sum of the parts, the Amazon will often have larger heavier tyres and stronger wheels than the Yukon for example.

As for having no room for extra bikes, I live in a flat the size of a postage stamp and have to walk in my bedroom sideways to get past the three bikes that I've somehow squeezed in

Paul

calvjones

Yep, I think you are going to have to extended-lend me a 54cm Ventus so I can really zone in on the subtle differences...





No?





Oh.

paul_smith_srcc

calvjones wrote:

Yep, I think you are going to have to extended-lend me a 54cm Ventus so I can really zone in on the subtle differences...





No?





Oh.

I can do better than that, some of my customers don't buy them at all anymore, they now get paid to ride bikes and they get to go cycling all day, all you have to do is go fasttttttttttt..... What they look for in a bike is does it work and can I be fabulous on it! Mind you they ride bikes that are so harsh with a bike fit so extreme that it makes my eyes water just looking at them!

Paul

MrTomEC

The Yukon had Dura Ace 1380 wheels with Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 23s whichI perceived to be pretty quick, the Roubaix has Fulcrum Racing 6s with specialised all condition 23s - the same tyres my Allez originally came with - pretty nasty. I've got the Roubaix on lone for 24 hours so I might pop some GP400s on it tomorrow and take it out for a longer spin, give it one last chance. Although I still need to find a dealer who has / can get me a Ventus in a 60cm for a test ride - the SE I'm considering will come with Mavic Aksium's whihc is what I would plan to keep on it.

calvjones

Sounds like a deal, as long as I don't have to give up pies, Leffe Blonde and the 2-pack Gitane habit?

paul_smith_srcc

MrTomEC wrote:

The Yukon had Dura Ace 1380 wheels with Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 23s whichI perceived to be pretty quick, the Roubaix has Fulcrum Racing 6s with specialised all condition 23s - the same tyres my Allez originally came with - pretty nasty. I've got the Roubaix on lone for 24 hours so I might pop some GP400s on it tomorrow and take it out for a longer spin, give it one last chance. Although I still need to find a dealer who has / can get me a Ventus in a 60cm for a test ride - the SE I'm considering will come with Mavic Aksium's whihc is what I would plan to keep on it.

That's thrown a bit of a 'googly' into the works I would imagine the store has swapped that wheel package out of another test bike, the tyres especially are a very unusual choice for that bike, those interested in those marginal gains would normally be looking at a different bike.

Wheels and tyres are something that yes make a difference, but often the difference is noticeable as it being that specific piece of kit so you should be able to make allowances when you test ride a bike with a heavier wheel with a more versatile and yes heavier, more puncture resistant general tyre than the lightweight fast magnificence that is the Vitorria Corsa CX; yes I have them on my fast bike, but I don't use those unless the sun is a shining and the Pope has blessed the road 15 minutes before I ride on it; they are though so lurvelyyyyyyyyy to ride, they even make a different noise! Any bike, wheel-tyre package that makes you feel faster will seduce you of course, but at a cost, both financially and in the very very rare event that the weather is, well weathery, robust they are not!

Paul

MrTomEC

Ah, the Yukon actually belongs to the guy who runs the shop so i'm thinking the wheels might have originally been on something else. I completely agree with you about the tyres, I love the feel of my GP 4000, but my gator skins (touch wood) never puncture and run pretty well so I tend to use them more.