Upgrading frames - will i notice difference

le_boss

I bought my first carbon road bike 3 years ago and have loved it. It cost me a grand but has been a fantastic investment tbh and never had any problems with it.

However, recently i find myself looking at higher end bikes and i am now seriously contemplating upgrading.

My question is, how much of a difference will i notice between riding a cheaper carbon frame and a more expensive carbon frame?

styxd

this much if its a sunny day

---

gilesjuk

Contact points are what you notice more. Saddle, peddles, bars, tape, gear shifters and brakes. Wheels will feel different, lighter wheels are easier to get going.

But unless you move from one material to another it is doubtful you will feel any major differences if the geometry of each frame is very similar. You might find Ti is a smoother ride, but you'd also find it flexing when out of the saddle.

If anything, you'll find a high end carbon frame to be less comfortable as they like maximum stiffness so that as much of the power goes to the wheels as possible.

TBH, if you really want to make a difference and you haven't done one already, have a bike fit session. You'll optimise your positioning on the bike for comfort and efficiency.

daviesee

Geometry leading to comfort or responsiveness. Some frames will give both but generally you get one at the expense of the other.
Unless you are an elite racer, don't expect any meaningful speed differential.

Grill

The main thing you'll notice is the difference in flex from the chainstays, BB, and fork. This translates to increased response, especially when climbing.

le_boss

thanks for the responses.
i have held back because i wasnt sure how much of a difference there would be.
think i will hold on and look in to it a bit more.

giant_man

Depends purely on which frames you are talking about imo.

le_boss

giant man wrote:

Depends purely on which frames you are talking about imo.

have a 2010 boardman team carbon.
was looking at the felt f1 or a specialized s works.

Grill

Which S-Works frame?

le_boss

looking at this one
http://www.thebikefactory.co.uk/product ... ctid=72971

Grill

You will absolutely notice a difference.

le_boss

so it will be worth the money then??!!

have thought about it all night and im edging towards getting it.

just have to persuade the mrs that its a good investment.
lol

lovestheclimb

That sl4 is super stiff in the front end aswell as the bottom bracket and even the back end, is seriously a cracking bike. and you will notice the difference. as a post said above those are the main areas you will notice the difference, you will notice the efficiency

go for it!

Froomes Edgar

Grill wrote:

You will absolutely notice a difference.

Yep. Spend a few grand on a £200 piece of carbon and you'll convince yourself of practically anything. It will be both stiffer yet more comfortable, lighter yet sturdier and accelerate more quickly yet hold momentum better.

Of course, none of this will actually make you any faster.

JamesB

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12896214

although some did find it a tedious thread I put up

BUT it may be of interest to OP how little difference a new frame may make to speed.
Comfort, responsiveness etc though are entirely a different matter

passout

Why not get a complete bike and sell the old one? There might not be all that much in it once you do all the sums & take into account the wear on your present kit. Complete bikes just seem better value to me & you may notice the difference is more if moving to a different groupset. Personally I wouldn't just upgrade the frame but it entirely depends on your priorities.

iPete

You probably won't go any faster but it might be a bit more responsive and fun to ride. Can you not get a complete Venge 105 for that price? Granted different bikes and geo I'd imagine.

le_boss

passout wrote:

Why not get a complete bike and sell the old one? There might not be all that much in it once you do all the sums & take into account the wear on your present kit. Complete bikes just seem better value to me & you may notice the difference is more if moving to a different groupset. Personally I wouldn't just upgrade the frame but it entirely depends on your priorities.

I have thought about a full bike, it does work out cheaper, but i quite like the idea of getting the frame and then building it myself.
So when i had finished building it i would have my dream bike and it would have been self built.

chrisaonabike

Froomes Edgar wrote:

...lighter yet ... hold momentum better.

How on earth can that be true (aerodynamics aside)?

Or did you mean it purely in terms of all the desirable things we'd imagine were true, having spent a huge wedge?

Froomes Edgar

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

Froomes Edgar wrote:

...lighter yet ... hold momentum better.

How on earth can that be true (aerodynamics aside)?

Or did you mean it purely in terms of all the desirable things we'd imagine were true, having spent a huge wedge?

The latter. I've seen the former argued on here more than once FFS

carrock

Froomes Edgar wrote:

Grill wrote:

You will absolutely notice a difference.

Yep. Spend a few grand on a £200 piece of carbon and you'll convince yourself of practically anything. It will be both stiffer yet more comfortable, lighter yet sturdier and accelerate more quickly yet hold momentum better.

Of course, none of this will actually make you any faster.

My experience with specialized frames is that there is a big difference between 7r and 9r frames in terms of stiffness and response. The s works sl4 is 11r carbon so I imagine will be significantly better than 9r. Ultimately if the OP can afford one, who are we to say it isn't worth it for what he wants to do with it. Even if he isn't a pro racer, it will be nicer to ride.

Froomes Edgar

The point is that there is very little measurable difference between any two frames. Its just a lump of metal/carbon onto which you attach wheels/cranks/seatpost etc. If the OP knows this and still wants to spend a lot of money on a frame, then of course thats up to him. But its only fair to point out that any difference he does notice will be due to his perception being coloured by having spunked a load of money on it, rather than, y'know, the difference actually existing

careful

Or did you mean it purely in terms of all the desirable things we'd imagine were true, having spent a huge wedge?

Nothing wrong with self delusion if it makes you happy. Unless you are a pro whos income depends on actual rather than imagined improvement.

smidsy

careful wrote:

Or did you mean it purely in terms of all the desirable things we'd imagine were true, having spent a huge wedge?

Nothing wrong with self delusion if it makes you happy. Unless you are a pro whos income depends on actual rather than imagined improvement.

Not strictly true. Performing to a high standard is often as much a mental thing as a physical one.

If the person believes there to be a performance improvement from a component, it does not matter if it is placebo or not, they tend to perform better.

Worked all the time in Motorcycle racing - get into the riders head

Delusion is THE best perfomance upgrade

bernithebiker

I have the SL4 Sworks; couple of things;

1st - check it has a post recall fork. Most likely it doesn't as the recall only came out last week. The fork steerer can shear off at the stem junction, so check that as an absolute priority.

2nd - it's a nice frame and I like it, but so much magazine crap is written about 'vertical compliance' and 'stiff yet supple', etc. There is a hair's breadth between all of the sub 1kg top end frames, so it comes down to the style, brand, etc. What will make a big difference to the ride and feel are wheels, tyres, seat + post, bars, etc.

le_boss

bernithebiker wrote:

I have the SL4 Sworks; couple of things;

1st - check it has a post recall fork. Most likely it doesn't as the recall only came out last week. The fork steerer can shear off at the stem junction, so check that as an absolute priority.

2nd - it's a nice frame and I like it, but so much magazine crap is written about 'vertical compliance' and 'stiff yet supple', etc. There is a hair's breadth between all of the sub 1kg top end frames, so it comes down to the style, brand, etc. What will make a big difference to the ride and feel are wheels, tyres, seat + post, bars, etc.

thanks for the advice. will make sure the forks have been checked before i buy.

hoping to pull the trigger this weekend!!
so thanks for all the replies and advice.

Froomes Edgar

smidsy wrote:

careful wrote:

Or did you mean it purely in terms of all the desirable things we'd imagine were true, having spent a huge wedge?

Nothing wrong with self delusion if it makes you happy. Unless you are a pro whos income depends on actual rather than imagined improvement.

Not strictly true. Performing to a high standard is often as much a mental thing as a physical one.

If the person believes there to be a performance improvement from a component, it does not matter if it is placebo or not, they tend to perform better.

Worked all the time in Motorcycle racing - get into the riders head

Delusion is THE best perfomance upgrade

Interesting. If you can convince yourself of things that aren't true, why not convince yourself a cheaper frame will make you faster and save a load of money?

smidsy

Froomes Edgar wrote:

smidsy wrote:

careful wrote:

Or did you mean it purely in terms of all the desirable things we'd imagine were true, having spent a huge wedge?

Nothing wrong with self delusion if it makes you happy. Unless you are a pro whos income depends on actual rather than imagined improvement.

Not strictly true. Performing to a high standard is often as much a mental thing as a physical one.

If the person believes there to be a performance improvement from a component, it does not matter if it is placebo or not, they tend to perform better.

Worked all the time in Motorcycle racing - get into the riders head

Delusion is THE best perfomance upgrade

Interesting. If you can convince yourself of things that aren't true, why not convince yourself a cheaper frame will make you faster and save a load of money?

You mis understand me...I know it is not but the trick is getting the guy riding it to believe it is 8)

As a mechanic for a race team (motorcycles not cycles) I often convinced the rider that a certain tyre or brake pad or whatever would take 2 seconds off the PB. Surprising how they suddenly brake later

pitchshifter

Why don't you save £1600 and buy this

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/p/19452/s2- ... leShopping

Spend the rest on wheels.