Advice needed from experienced bikers

newbie_biker

Hey everyone, I've just recently come across bikeradar forums after hunting for a new hardtail trail bike. I had a full suspension bike which was stolen last year and I've got a birthday this month on the 22nd where I've been offered a new mountain bike so I wanted some suggestions on what to go for. The specs I'm looking for and my budget are:

All around use hardtail
Budget: £400 - £700 (£800 tops)
Wheelsize: 26" (preferably 29")
Frame material: As light and stiff as possible according to budget
Components: SRAM X7 or Deore XT (peferably the latter)
Brakes: Hydraulic disc brakes
Gearing configuration: 2 X 10 (20 Speed), 3 X 7 (27 speed) or 3 X 8 (24 Speed)

My main purpose of the bike is to keep in shape but I'm an experinced rider and want the bike to be able to handle a good thrashing as well.

Thanks in advance everyone I look forward to reading your suggestions.

70\ʹspenguin

For that kind of budget, wanting that kind of spec you are going to have to look at Radon from Bike-discount.de or a Canyon.

29 er http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1860/ ... r-5-0.html
Or Just over budget http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1860/ ... r-6-0.html

Canyon
http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... tml?b=3005
£900
http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... tml?b=3006

cooldad

newbie_biker wrote:

Hey everyone, I've just recently come across bikeradar forums after hunting for a new hardtail trail bike.

So to save everyone posting random stuff, where have you looked, what have you looked at etc?

newbie_biker

cooldad wrote:

So to save everyone posting random stuff, where have you looked, what have you looked at etc?

Hi cool, I first started with my local Cycle King, Halfords and had a look at the reviews on mtbr.com

The CK and Halfords stuff for the money I wanted to spend seemed a bit poor quality to me. Then I looked at some stuff made by Norco but for my budget it seems I can't find a Norco with XT components, I've also had a look at the Boardman Comp which I was seriously considering but decided to see what other options are available to me hence why I came on here. Trek, Diamondback and Specialized are a few other brands I've had a look at.

Hope that helps. Thank you for your assistance guys.

cycleclinic

Also look for second hand. I don't think you will get much XT fort £800 except maybe mechs. Oranage do this http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/clockwork/ should be able to by one of these for a fair biut less than the list price. I would avoid CK or halfords (unless your local halford is actually staffed by keen cyclists there a few of those). go to a shop with helpful staff who will spend time with you discussing your needs and present to you all the options. Try a few. Shops like this do exist but you masy have to travel abit.

donlt forget Kona Laiperrie e.t.c.
http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=unit
http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=mahuna
http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=cinder_cone
http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=lanai
http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=tika
http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=fire_mountain

and that's just from Kona. XT kit for £800 though is a big ask. Focus on the bike fitting you and meeting your needs rather than a particular spec.

newbie_biker

thecycleclinic wrote:

and that's just from Kona. XT kit for £800 though is a big ask. Focus on the bike fitting you and meeting your needs rather than a particular spec.

Thanks Clinic. Got a question for you though, how much would it cost for an aftermarket upgrade to XT? The reason I'm emphasizing on XT kit is because from my understanding it's very realiable.... also does SRAM X9 stuff the same calibre as XT?

In regards to the bike fitting me, what I want is a good shifting mechanism with the gears. Gripshifts never really took my fancy, but maybe they have moved on now. I also want something which peddles efficiently uphill so that is why I chose to go with the 29ers and a lightweight frame, overall I have a vague idea of what I'm looking for but it's like you said. I won't be able to find a bike enthusiast at my local store or someone who has the knowledge of all you guys combined, that's why it's better I'm presented with a bunch of options then I can choose which I like.

So far from what I have seen, The Canyon Yellowstone Al 6.9 looks like a decent bit of kit

mcnultycop

There is a whole SRAM vs Shimano debate that could start here. I've never had any SRAM drivetrain at all, so cannot comment, but I've got XT and Deore on my bikes and both are reliable. I wouldn't get too hung up on getting XT at that price, I'd be more concerned about getting a decent fork.

cycleclinic

I am completley bioased against SRAM. I have always felt it is a bit more unrelaible. How much to upgrade to XT kit well that all depends on how much XT you want. For example Shimano Derore brakes are nearly every bit as good as XT. XT kit is what I like to ride with as its light and reliable.

Getting good fork is essential like Marzicchi Marathons for example. With the low end forks you find on a sub £800 bike (especialy to £400-500 bike) I so trhink you are better with rigid forks. I stil use an old steel Marin with rigid fork for cross country work and it perfect. That's adnorned with 8 spoeed XT kit and middleburn cranks. I love this bike. Cost alot less than £800 as well.

I don't know what you can buy all this for online but the latest M780 10 speed kit
double chainset
XT brakes
ice tech rotor
rear mech
front mech
cassette
chain I would use a KMC 10-93 it cost less

All would be about £550. If you want pedals and XT wheels (or wheels build with XT hubs) then add some more coin. If you go for all this kit though it would be a shame to adnorne it on a £400 MTB. Better off buying a decent frame like the organge clockwork or a Pipe dream Scion and building it up. However on that route budget well over £1k.

With all bike spend as much as you can and build it up from the frame and that way you will get what you want/need rather than buying off the peg and them spending far more turing it into the bike you want.

The biggest down fall of £800 bike or less is not the drive train its the fork, wheels and tyres. The wheels are of cheap construction and can and often do cause problems with a biot of abuse. The tyres tend to be cheap and fit for well you decide. For £800 max buy s/h to get a decent spec.

newbie_biker

thecycleclinic wrote:

Better off buying a decent frame like the organge clockwork or a Pipe dream Scion and building it up. However on that route budget well over £1k.

With all bike spend as much as you can and build it up from the frame and that way you will get what you want/need rather than buying off the peg and them spending far more turing it into the bike you want.

That is an excellent idea, I did actually think about building a bike from the ground up but my have a few apprehensions like "will constructing it be complicated since I've never done it before" "How do I know which components to go for eg. what front derailer, wheels, forks etc. do I buy?"

But logically what you said makes a lot of sense to me and I am quite inclined to the idea.

By the way Clinic, how do I choose the right frame size for me?

cooldad

There is a lot of rubbish being spoken above. Guy's looking for a £700 bike, and so far - £500 for bits, Add on a decent fork - £250-£300, some wheels - £200, well over a grand and you're stlll missing something to hang them all on.

Stop getting stressed about XT etc. Deore is very reliable, things generally just get lighter as they get more expensive, and often less reliable.

Best bang for your buck is Halfords - Voodoo for something chunky, Boardman for something more racy.

Or the German shops the Penguin linked to.

Or older models on sale - Paul's Cycles is a good place to start.

eternalstudent

Ok so I'm basically a noob to MTBing, but there are a few things that I learnt fairly quickly for choosing a bike.

1 - is it comfortable to sit on
2 - what are the forks like (IMHO the second most important component after the seating position)
3 - components are as good as you can use them (can you adjust them, will they survive your first off), for me the SRAM is crap as I hit the damn leaver all the time with my ham fisted thumbs. deore is good.

For that money you will easily find something that will do what you want.

Clank

SRAM's not 'crap'. It's just folk don't like it.

Also worth a look for 500 notes is the Decathlon Rockrider 8.1: X7 mechs and shifters, sensible shimano bottom bracket and a Rockshox Recon TK fork (it might not be a half-grand Fox unit, but it's a bloody good fork for the money - epecially on a 500 quid bike).

Between Decathlon and Halfords, you'd have to be spending 800-900 quid to buy similarly specced bikes from the 'Big Names'.

cooldad

Good suggestion^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

newbie_biker

cooldad wrote:

Or the German shops the Penguin linked to.

Yeah I had a look at those links, I liked the Radon ZR Race. I also wouldn't mind pushing the boat out for the Canyon Yellowstone Al 6.9 which looks like a pretty decent piece of kit.

cycleclinic

I did say earlier that the OP should not stress about spec but concentrate on finding a bike that fits and meets his/her riding needs. I did also say I am biased against SRAM - I don't like it but that does not mean it is crap - I never siad that!

Also the pricing above cool dad is dispell the idea that XT sopeced vike can be had for £800. I was trying to point out it will cost well over £1k. You seem to agree that's good.

You won't know what you like I until you tyest ride a few. that is the first thing to do and don't buy the first thing you see. Test ride a number of bikes.

I think there has been some misinterpreation of my posts.

I have had £500 MTB's before and I ride alot, they did not last too long beofgre I bent or broke most of the major componments like the wheels. I have had to spend signicantly more to build a MTB that will take the riding I do reliably. The Op has to decide the use he/she will be putting it through and that will determine the spend/spec needed. Occastional XC use and a £500 MTB might be all that needed.

Clank

thecycleclinic wrote:

I think there has been some misinterpreation of my posts.

As Frank Carson would have said 'It's the way you tell 'em'.

I am completley bioased against SRAM. I have always felt it is a bit more unrelaible

With the low end forks you find on a sub £800 bike (especialy to £400-500 bike) I so trhink you are better with rigid forks

Better off buying a decent frame like the organge clockwork or a Pipe dream Scion and building it up. However on that route budget well over £1k.

Your call.

newbie_biker

Clank, there is no need to nit pik mate, just let it go please.

There seems to be a lot of contradiction going on here and it's driving me nuts, it's making things even more difficult for me. If you guys have conflicting opinions then please start a thread and have it out amongst yourselves.

I came here to ask for your help, please kindly put your differences aside and let's try to draw some straight forward conclusions.

Cycleclinic claims that XT equipment for £800 is a big ask yet Penguin was able to find a few bikes which actually have some very good spec for my budget & slightly over it as well. I don't disagree with the idea of building something from scratch but I feel I just don't have the experience to take on that kind of a task unless it's not as hard as it looks. Don't forget, I have a budget of £800 so if I was to build it then I can start with the frame, forks, seatpost and maybe a decent wheelset. When I have a bit more money I can keep adding. My only concern is How do I know what to look for and also which components are reliable and which are decent enough to be on the bike? And given I'm not an experienced builder I'm apprehensive that I may fit the wrong size part or pick something which may not be suitable for my bike hence why it is better to just buy a ready to ride bike which already has all the right components fitted to it.

I can see an argument brewing above and that's not why I'm here, all help is sincerely appreciated but please try and keep the posts on here confined to the topic. Thank you

The Rookie

Would you consider a good used? At that price point you'll get some cracking 18 month old bikes....

eternalstudent

Clank wrote:

SRAM's not 'crap'. It's just folk don't like it.

thecycleclinic wrote:

I did say earlier that the OP should not stress about spec but concentrate on finding a bike that fits and meets his/her riding needs. I did also say I am biased against SRAM - I don't like it but that does not mean it is crap - I never siad that!

No I did but I said

eternalstudent wrote:

for me the SRAM is crap as I hit the damn leaver all the time with my ham fisted thumbs. deore is good.

But lets not let this desend into a sram vs shimano debate as there already seems to be one of those :roll:

newbie_biker

The Beginner wrote:

Would you consider a good used? At that price point you'll get some cracking 18 month old bikes....

If that is the case then please show me what is available, if I can't see anything then I can't say yes to your question.

newbie_biker

Here are a couple that I have been looking at, what do you think?

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... 1b0s2p3227

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... b65s2p3695

cooldad

The Rock Shox would do it for me - plenty of places to get parts/servicing.

appy

With that budget id go one of these ways.

New or 2nd hand boardman comp
2nd hand would leave money for future upgrades
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boardman-Comp ... 4abf6c557b
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boardman-comp ... 3ccd4bbe2d
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boardman-comp ... 3ccd4bbe2d


2nd hand Carbon on one 456
Very good all round bike, Ive ridden mine on everything from all day rides to full on black runs.

2nd hand full suss boardman
Punches way above its weight. Ive owned one very good bike.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boardman-MTB- ... 3f202398af

bennett_346

SRAM is crap, though.

I'm afraid that's all the valuable insight I can offer.

70\ʹspenguin

The Scale you linked meets your needs. Good fork, good components throughout. Good brand. http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... 1b0s2p3227

For £800 i doubt you can buy better in this country. The bike is perfect for general XC, most trail centres, general commuting, fitness training, pootling about and of course racing (as its a racing oriented MTB). Its not great for throwing yourself downhill or jumping or flying off big drops, but you are a beginner and wont be using it for this. It may not be as comfy as a full suss that has a more upright sitting position, but its more than adequate to spend all day on!

This next bit is not comprehensive in any way, but is a brief summary just to give you more of an idea. Dont take it as gospel:

As a beginner and "noob" you will be reading all that is said but probably do not have a clue what makes something good on a bike. I am not going to tell you whats good and whats not because its so subjective, however there are certain standards of quality and performance that are claimed by manufacturer and user alike.

As a rule of thumb Shimano and Sram are pretty much equal. However, some Sram works better for some and some Shimano works better for others. Some Sram is a little behind in performance and endurance and some Shimano similar. Some people will have a nightmare with Sram and some will hate Shimano.

For your purposes when looking at either manufacturer my advice would be to start with what is considered the bottom of the "real" MTB stuff. For Sram that would be X5 and up and for Shimano that would be Alivio and above, (personally i would start at Deore). You can, of course, use stuff that is considered lower like Acera and Alivio (usually its heavier and sometimes less durable), and have a great time with no worries.

Sram heirarchy ascending x5, x7, x9, XO, XX
Shimano heirarchy acending Alivio, Deore, SLX, XT, XTR

There are deviations in the lists but this is just very basic to illustrate.

As for Forks then at this price point you are looking at RockShox predominantly as Fox are too pricey. They seem to be offering the best performance at the most reasonable prices. A good fork for general XC riding and day to day use is usually below 2kg, has a good damper to absorb bumps and not bounce you all over the trail and comes with some form of lock out.

Many new bikes within your budget will have the lower end XC or the Recon Silver. Both decent forks that will serve you well. Personally the Recon Silver would be my lowest starting point. After this you are looking at the Recon Gold >Reba >SID and the numerous variations of all these models. There are many variations of these forks and they are too numerous to mention but Recon Gold is excellent at this Price Point and REBA (any variation) is bargainstastic!

The above forks are the current XC oriented fork. Most of them have the option to be 100mm travel or 120mm. Either of those travels are enough for most of the riding you will do.

The contact points (grips,pedals and sets etc) can and will most likely be changed along the way. There is little or no point at this stage to worry about them.

Wheels will be decent on anything within your budget and not something to worry about.

A folding Kevlar beaded tyre will usually be lighter, have a better construction and grip better . However, there are many people who ride perfectly well and happily on wire beaded tyres!

Brakes: Look for Shimano and Avid. You may get a Formula if lucky. At £500+ you will get brakes that will serve you pretty well so dont worry too much.


I hope this helps a little. Its a very rough guide, but hopefully will take away some confusion.

Edit: Just to add - i know you say you want to give the bike a thrashing and the above info and bike is pretty much oriented to genral XC and trail, but i am assuming that due to your lack of knowledge, your version of a thrashing is not what many of the people here would consider a "thrashing" .

The Rookie

Except (Bennet) you are wrong, many people use SRAM with no issues at all, the sons bike (see link in sig for rebuild) is on X9/X7 and has no more issues than my XT on the same rides, also my commuter is on X9 and has no issues, the only real weakness with SRAM is the jockey wheels on the older ones (not 2010 onwards), but that's fixable, they are also slightly more picky on maintenance due to the lower spring rates, but you should be maintaining parts anyway.

newbie_biker

Thanks for the insight Penguin, was an interesting read. However, at this point there are things that are still going straight over my head.

My question about constructing a bike from scratch still hasn't been answered, is it me just being intimidated buy it and can I complete the task at this stage and have a minimal amount of cockups or should I just stick with a ready to ride.

The on one 456 carbon looks like a decent frame if I want to start building a bike.

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOC456P/o ... _456_frame

70\ʹspenguin

You CAN thrash on that 456

My personal advice would be to not build a bike totally from scratch. You could end up with something that simply does not work for you as you will have no benchmarks from which to set it up from.

If you had decided to upgrade a current bike with a new one as you had outgrown it then id say go for it. Reason being you would have a clearer idea of what would and wouldnt work for you.

No, its not hard to build a bike. I built mine and im a total DIY cretin. Tinternet is full of guides and videos so its not hard. Like i said though, how will you know the parts will be something you like?

That would be my main reservation and not the fact that its too technical to build a bike.

Im not sure you could build something new to the standard of componentry of the German bikes or that scale. You could do it second hand but then having no idea about parts you set yourself up for some very expensive errors.

newbie_biker

70\'sPenguin wrote:

You CAN thrash on that 456
Im not sure you could build something new to the standard of componentry of the German bikes or that scale. You could do it second hand but then having no idea about parts you set yourself up for some very expensive errors.

That is my main apprehension, how will I know the kit I put on the bike will work well and how do I know what to put on there and what to avoid.

As it stands, these two are the main candidates and if something else doesn't come then I will choose one of the two:

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... 1b0s2p3227

http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1860/ ... r-6-0.html

For future posters, I'm not really considering anything second hand and am trying to avoid ebay, I'm in Luton and can't really travel to pick the stuff up since I'm a long time epilepsy sufferer and not allowed to drive.

appy

If you dont want 2nd hand id get the Boardman comp new its a better all rounder than the 2 bikes above which you might find a little race orientated.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... tsid:37143

Although you really shoudnt rule out 2nd hand as because of the cycle scheme there are so many bikes that havnt been ridden as people just want the money.

newbie_biker

appy wrote:

Although you really shoudnt rule out 2nd hand as because of the cycle scheme there are so many bikes that havnt been ridden as people just want the money.

I'm not bothered about spending £800 on new bike, buying it brand new just gives me a bit more piece of mind. Also it's easy for someone to say "oh I've only used it a handful of times" when in reality it has been ridden more than Kim Kardashian.

I must admit though Appy, the Boardman FS Team you sent me a link to looks pretty decent. Although, you seem like you're a bit biased towards Boardmans