Formula 1: Ferrari consider Sebastian Vettel protest
jairaj
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It should be a total non-issue, as far as I can see there are a few incidents that could be investigated, but none of them warrant a penalty.
It's not immediately clear on the video the BBC provided because there's a massive on-screen graphic in the way, but there's a marshall waving a green flag after the flashing yellow light just before Vettel overtakes Vergne. Which is more than likely why Vettel overtook. The marshalls also wouldn't be waving the flag if the weren't instructed to by race control, so if there's going to be any investigation it will be into that particular miscommunication.0 -
^ This. Vettel was within his right to overtake, the marshall may be an idiot however.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
It may be my eyes, but I'm sure you can see little yellow lights above the wheel either side of the rev light strip. This would indicate that the section is still under yellow flags and is controlled by race control, so if that's the case there is something that Ferrari could claim. Having looked at the lap by lap positions, from that first corner crash vettel gained 2 places per lap there after, so by lap 8 he was well up the field. Two places per lap in a damaged car, under yellow flags in certain areas... Vettel was also one of the slowest cars through the speedtrap, something doesnt add up to me.
The fact its a Toro Rosso he over took is another area of contention imo, as I think its completely wrong that the two teams are related and for all we know there could have been all sorts going on between the two teams after Vettel's spin on the first lap...
I still say Massa should have done the honourable thing a the start and just plowed into him Senna suzuka style
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Is it right that a flag takes precedence over the lights in the car?0
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Yes, Flags are the top of the chain in terms of orders.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
This is from reading around on the interweb so its probably totally incorrect but apparently the lights on the dash are just a guide and flags and lights from the marshals are what you're supposed to use.
Also seen some footage from else where that doesn't have the rev counter display, you can see a marshal waving something but the video quality is not very good and I can't tell for sure what he is waving.0 -
Ive see a shot of the incident, and he's definitely under green flags at the time he passes the Toro Rosso.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
There is a contradiction here between the flags and lights and that is where the issue is. The flag may have been waved, but the next light is still flashing yellow, as are the lights on vettel's dashboard, so you can read it in two ways:
- The flag over-rules all lights and dashboard signals
- yes there was a flag but the other warnings are in place and it could be simple human error from the marshall
IMO its up to the driver to react to flags, given Vettel's drive to win in a typically German way, by what ever means, if he see's anything that allows him to overtake he's gonna do it, the fact its a Toro Rosso and it slows down to let him past, he's going to overtake it, regardless of what he see's.
A more rational driver would, I believe, have acted differently and waited to know for sure the lights and flags are green and you can go racing. It shows a sense of entitlement that Vettel has that he and Red Bull are always bending and working beyond the rules. A penalty would be harsh, but given what I think is an irrational, irresponsible over take when there are incidents on the track, over taking at racing speed is wrong and yes, whilst harsh, a penalty would be justifed, as he could have endangered marshalls on track. It then sets a precedent for future and clears any ambiguity; overtake under yellows = penalty, no questions.0 -
Yeah, the lights on the steering wheel can only be considered a guide, as there could be any number of malfunctions that could possibly lead to the light being on, so the flags and trackside lights take precedence over them.
I'm just in the process of following family tradition and should hopefully be becoming a marshall next year, so I'm following all of this with quite a keen interest.0 -
lawman wrote:There is a contradiction here between the flags and lights and that is where the issue is. The flag may have been waved, but the next light is still flashing yellow, as are the lights on vettel's dashboard, so you can read it in two ways:
- The flag over-rules all lights and dashboard signals
- yes there was a flag but the other warnings are in place and it could be simple human error from the marshall
IMO its up to the driver to react to flags, given Vettel's drive to win in a typically German way, by what ever means, if he see's anything that allows him to overtake he's gonna do it, the fact its a Toro Rosso and it slows down to let him past, he's going to overtake it, regardless of what he see's.
A more rational driver would, I believe, have acted differently and waited to know for sure the lights and flags are green and you can go racing. It shows a sense of entitlement that Vettel has that he and Red Bull are always bending and working beyond the rules. A penalty would be harsh, but given what I think is an irrational, irresponsible over take when there are incidents on the track, over taking at racing speed is wrong and yes, whilst harsh, a penalty would be justifed, as he could have endangered marshalls on track. It then sets a precedent for future and clears any ambiguity; overtake under yellows = penalty, no questions.
A more rational driver would have done the same thing - if (as has been pointed out by a couple of others and was my understanding) the flag overrides the lights he has acted within the rules. Having that sort of attitude of driving to the limit helps to win races, I don't see it as a sense of entitlement if he acted within the rules. Sure, driving this way increases the chance that one day you'll be caught out (as he has before), but it doesn't look to me as if he has anything to answer for here.0 -
I thought the whole purpose of track and car lights was to alleviate the confusion of the antiquated approach of flag waving which was prone to these misunderstandings and contraversies (remember Silverstone '98)?
Anyway, the FIA has said this morning that there is no case to answer.0 -
benpinnick wrote:Ive see a shot of the incident, and he's definitely under green flags at the time he passes the Toro Rosso.
Fair enough looks like Vettel should stay champion. He reacted to the flag which was green allowing him to overtake.
If the marshal made a mistake by waving the wrong flag then it's the marshal's fault not Vettel's fault. You can't penalise Vettel for a mistake performed by a marshal. (If it even was a mistake by the marshall, the person controlling the lights could have it wrong too?)0 -
The thing with the lights is they are not located at every marshall's post, so the flags are always what the driver should follow first. If the marshall was waving a green flag, it's simply because he'd been instructed to do so by race control and Vettel was completely in the right to overtake. The light on the right hand side after the green flag was also flashing green which to me shows that he did it under green flag conditions... if that light had been flashing yellow then I could understand the controversy, but as it stands it just looks like Ferrari are clutching at straws.0
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