Dt Swiss & FFWD wheel sets

Crispyapp

Hi I'm currently looking for a new Wheelset and after looking at quite literally hundreds of sets I'm liking the look of the new dt Swiss r spline series and the ffwd wheels... Has anyone here have any first hand experience with the wheels/brands.

Also if any experts here can offer alternatives I'd be very happy. Pls serious considerations only.

Type of riding I do is mostly undulating to hilly. Living near the dales this is where I ride pretty much each week, failing this it would be the Calder valley or Peak District region. I'm looking for a rim depth of upto 45mm ish but ideally the ones I've seen are 38mm which I think is about ideal. Wheels must be light and stiff. And for the first time EVER I'm now considering tubs. So again if anyone can advise in this are aid be greatful.

Edit .....

The 2 sets I'm looking at are FFWD F4R 180 Tubular and the DT SWISS RC38 Spline...

Thanks....

DavidJB

Hi Crispy,

I've just got the F4R's but I've not ridden them yet (waiting for the new bike) first impressions however is that they are really well made and great quality.

I know its not much but its something!

Thanks

Crispyapp

DavidJB wrote:

Hi Crispy,

I've just got the F4R's but I've not ridden them yet (waiting for the new bike) first impressions however is that they are really well made and great quality.

I know its not much but its something!

Thanks

Hey thanks for that, your right its a start. I have read that as well. They seem very light as well. Can I ask did you get the tubs, and what will you be using them for? Which hubs did you go with as I notice there are 4 options.

Thanks

ugo.santalucia

What makes you think that 38 mm is the ideal depth? For the kind of riding you describe there is nothing to gain with rim depth if not weight...
If you are looking for a set of tubolars to go up and down the dales, my money would be on Ambrosio Crono, built on a decent set of hubs.
I have them, have recently done about 400 miles in the alps and they are fantastic... Up and especially down, where the braking track is superb... As opposed to carbon rims, which are typically awful.

If you want the deep rims for the look, go ahead, but they are the wrong choice for your area and your riding

Crispyapp

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What makes you think that 38 mm is the ideal depth? For the kind of riding you describe there is nothing to gain with rim depth if not weight...
If you are looking for a set of tubolars to go up and down the dales, my money would be on Ambrosio Crono, built on a decent set of hubs.
I have them, have recently done about 400 miles in the alps and they are fantastic... Up and especially down, where the braking track is superb... As opposed to carbon rims, which are typically awful.

If you want the deep rims for the look, go ahead, but they are the wrong choice for your area and your riding

Who am I to argue with a wheel builder, your right they probably are wrong, however I do want a deeper rim and not a std flat rim, yes I want them to look good as well. And when you say the braking is awful do you mean it's just not as good as a alu brake track? I chose the 38mm profiler as I thought the 50mm would catch too much wind.

Can you suggest anything else that has a CHUNKIER look to it as opposed to a flat rim as I'm not too keen on those?

ugo.santalucia

Crispyapp wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What makes you think that 38 mm is the ideal depth? For the kind of riding you describe there is nothing to gain with rim depth if not weight...
If you are looking for a set of tubolars to go up and down the dales, my money would be on Ambrosio Crono, built on a decent set of hubs.
I have them, have recently done about 400 miles in the alps and they are fantastic... Up and especially down, where the braking track is superb... As opposed to carbon rims, which are typically awful.

If you want the deep rims for the look, go ahead, but they are the wrong choice for your area and your riding

Who am I to argue with a wheel builder, your right they probably are wrong, however I do want a deeper rim and not a std flat rim, yes I want them to look good as well. And when you say the braking is awful do you mean it's just not as good as a alu brake track? I chose the 38mm profiler as I thought the 50mm would catch too much wind.

Can you suggest anything else that has a CHUNKIER look to it as opposed to a flat rim as I'm not too keen on those?

I don't like to advise rims on the grounds of how they look. Archetype looks cool has a bit of profile and it is V shaped but it neither a tubular nor a light rim at 474 grams.
Ultimately you want 38 mm rims because in your head they look cool, who am I to argue?

huuregeil

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the kind of riding you describe there is nothing to gain with rim depth if not weight...

Actually, this is the other way round. A deep section carbon rim is way lighter than any alu rim (e.g. the FFWD rim weighs 330g, compared to e.g. a veyr light alu crono f20 which is 375g) and because a deep section is structurally stiffer, you can get away with fewer spokes (20/24 compared to 28/32 with the f20). Net effect, a deep section carbon tubular wheelset is stiff and much lighter than a comparable alu set (I think the FFWD would come in around 1400g, compared to a typical 28/32 crono built at ~1600g).

As opposed to carbon rims, which are typically awful.

Again, not so. A good rim with decent pads is perfectly fine for braking. You need to be a bit more careful in the wet, but I never think "oh, i won't ride my carbon wheels because it's raining". In the dry it's a non-issue. This depends a little on skill: if you're a timid descender, this won't apply; similarly if you ride the brakes all the way down the hill, you'll cook the rims, so don't buy these if that's you!

If you fancy deep section carbon rims, go for it, riding them is a blast! Stiff and responsive, and you feel the difference e.g. hitting the front on a paceline. The ride quality on tubs is good too. Plus, if you do the occasional TT, they're the perfect wheel choice.

ugo - sorry, but I very much disagree with you on this one, I've had a 50mm carbon wheelset for a full season now and I really get on with them well, I wouldn't hesitate using them for most things, the big exception being windy days in the hills where they catch the wind coming off descents.

ugo.santalucia

huuregeil wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the kind of riding you describe there is nothing to gain with rim depth if not weight...

Actually, this is the other way round. A deep section carbon rim is way lighter than any alu rim (e.g. the FFWD rim weighs 330g, compared to e.g. a veyr light alu crono f20 which is 375g) and because a deep section is structurally stiffer, you can get away with fewer spokes (20/24 compared to 28/32 with the f20). Net effect, a deep section carbon tubular wheelset is stiff and much lighter than a comparable alu set (I think the FFWD would come in around 1400g, compared to a typical 28/32 crono built at ~1600g).

As opposed to carbon rims, which are typically awful.

Again, not so. A good rim with decent pads is perfectly fine for braking. You need to be a bit more careful in the wet, but I never think "oh, i won't ride my carbon wheels because it's raining". In the dry it's a non-issue. This depends a little on skill: if you're a timid descender, this won't apply; similarly if you ride the brakes all the way down the hill, you'll cook the rims, so don't buy these if that's you!

If you fancy deep section carbon rims, go for it, riding them is a blast! Stiff and responsive, and you feel the difference e.g. hitting the front on a paceline. The ride quality on tubs is good too. Plus, if you do the occasional TT, they're the perfect wheel choice.

ugo - sorry, but I very much disagree with you on this one, I've had a 50mm carbon wheelset for a full season now and I really get on with them well, I wouldn't hesitate using them for most things, the big exception being windy days in the hills where they catch the wind coming off descents.

Even you can understand that I was referring to the fact that the highr the profile, the heavier the rim... Of course carbon tubolars are lighter than alloy ones, even shallow ones, we all know that. Don't always try to pick the incongruence even when there isn't one.. It is tedious...

Windy days in the hills? Have you not described the Yorkshire Dales Our friend rides for breakfast? He has to tackle steep ascents followed by steeper descents on occasionally damp roads... Carbon rims are not ideal... It is difficult to keep the pads clean and the braking is NOT as good as it is required on those demanding roads, especially if the roads are damp.

Crispyapp

huuregeil wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the kind of riding you describe there is nothing to gain with rim depth if not weight...

Actually, this is the other way round. A deep section carbon rim is way lighter than any alu rim (e.g. the FFWD rim weighs 330g, compared to e.g. a veyr light alu crono f20 which is 375g) and because a deep section is structurally stiffer, you can get away with fewer spokes (20/24 compared to 28/32 with the f20). Net effect, a deep section carbon tubular wheelset is stiff and much lighter than a comparable alu set (I think the FFWD would come in around 1400g, compared to a typical 28/32 crono built at ~1600g).

As opposed to carbon rims, which are typically awful.

Again, not so. A good rim with decent pads is perfectly fine for braking. You need to be a bit more careful in the wet, but I never think "oh, i won't ride my carbon wheels because it's raining". In the dry it's a non-issue. This depends a little on skill: if you're a timid descender, this won't apply; similarly if you ride the brakes all the way down the hill, you'll cook the rims, so don't buy these if that's you!

If you fancy deep section carbon rims, go for it, riding them is a blast! Stiff and responsive, and you feel the difference e.g. hitting the front on a paceline. The ride quality on tubs is good too. Plus, if you do the occasional TT, they're the perfect wheel choice.

ugo - sorry, but I very much disagree with you on this one, I've had a 50mm carbon wheelset for a full season now and I really get on with them well, I wouldn't hesitate using them for most things, the big exception being windy days in the hills where they catch the wind coming off descents.

Thanks for this, and you kind of mirror everything I've been thinking and had read about whilst looking into the wheels. This is the reason why I'd come to settle on this set of wheels. Believe me it hasn't been an easy decision and I've done my research.... The type of riding I do is why I decided on a 38mm as I love the 50mm's I feel they would potentially scupper certain riding days for me. I've never had tubs before that's a whole new experience but again I read there very safe wheels and the tub doesn't create as much heat as a clincher. I'm certainly no breaker on descents I'm the opposite, I don't climb very fast at all but can decend like a stone.

Thanks for the info

huuregeil

ugo, This isn't personal, it's just your advice really doesn't square with my experiences - it's all very well building good wheels, but nothing beats actually using the things!

The incongruity was you raising weight as an issue and then suggesting a wheelset some 200g heavier! And, again, it's not the rim alone that you need to consider - depending on the rim/spoke choice you can match of better the weight of a shallow profile wheelset with a deeper section rim, so it's not always a given that deeper is heavier.

Crispyapp - let us know how you get on with your new wheels!

Crispyapp

Crispyapp - let us know how you get on with your new wheels![/quote]

Thanks I will as soon as I buy them and have ridden them, this I will add wont be now until early next yr probably about march time. I will do a report on them. Not actually sure what I'm gonna ride through winter now though as my winter bike I've just found out this morning has been nicked. See other thread in general...

Stu517

I have just got a new set of FFW F6R's and they are awesome!

Look fantastic too in the neutral colour!