All about tubular tyres *new questions*

petemadoc

There seems to be all kinds of myths and BS surrounding tubular tyres. Without over complicating things what is the best way to fit and look after tubular tyres?

Should you remove glue from rims before fitting new tyres and if so what do you use?

Which glues are generally considered to be good/the best

I've heard of using liquid latex to protect tan sidewalls... is this necessary for dry rides

I assume the ageing thing is bollox

Can I mount a 24mm tyre on a 20mm rim and if so is it a good idea

I plan on avoiding sealant and repairing my own punctures, however as an emergency what sealant is generally considered to be the best

Any other tubular pearls of wisdom welcome

John.T

Best advice is if you are not using them for racing then don't use them. Clinchers are far less trouble.
I stick mine on with tape for TT use never had any trouble. Not used glue for 50 years.
No need to treat side-walls.
You are right about ageing. Not needed nowadays.
You can fit almost any tub to any rim (some of the new wide Zips, etc may vary).
Sealant seems to work for some but not others. I just carry a spare tub on long races where I may be a long way from help. On short ones I just risk it.

Monty Dog

I only use tubs for racing - you'd have to be a die-hard traditionalist to stick to them for regular use.
No need to remove old glue - as long as the glue is clean and free from lumps, simply apply a new coating.
Glue choice depends on rim, but I prefer Vittoria Mastik as tape doesn't work for CX tubs IME.
Treating sidewalls is only needed for the likes of Dugast tubs for Cyclocross - not required for road tyres IME.
Check how well the shape of the tub matches the rim profile - 'Belgian' method is best used where the tyre and rim don't match as it was developed for fat CX tubs on skinny road rims.
Sealant isn't 100% reliable, but far easier than changing a tub by the roadside in the rain,

pinarellokid

i bought a set of clincher carbon wheels which had some tubular clincher tyres fitted.. they seem to be a mix of both ..

they are a tub tyre which has fins which fit into the clincher groove on the wheel so never comes off unless you deflate and then they are just like a normal tyre.

i changed for ease of use. but i somehow managed to end up with 1 tyre left over.. certainly an option if you fancy the glueless option

cycleclinic

A tub habbit is expensive. I only use them for TT's. I have riden this bike (an old Alan not a TT bike) on club runs and dealing witrh pucnture is just a quick as do a puncture on a clincher if you have a pre stretched and pre glued tub. It was an expensive puncture though.

I also use tape as glue is a lot of faff. The spare tub is always preglued and I just put that on the old tape. I have found it gets me home quite well.

Brake cleaner is quite a good solvent for removing old glue if you want a clean rim but alot of elbow grease is required.

Also good clinchers offer just the same rolling resistance as good tubs. Tubs will be a bit more aerodynamic and may give better ride comfort. I use them on the Alan as my period wheels are sprints so I have no choice.

racingcondor

If you plan on repairing your own punctures then I'd avoid Conti tubs.

Essentially tubs are wrapped around the tube and sown together then base tape glued on. Unless I'm misremembering it Conti's tubs are made in a slightly different way which makes getting past the glued layers much harder.

petemadoc

racingcondor wrote:

If you plan on repairing your own punctures then I'd avoid Conti tubs.

Essentially tubs are wrapped around the tube and sown together then base tape glued on. Unless I'm misremembering it Conti's tubs are made in a slightly different way which makes getting past the glued layers much harder.

Gonna stick to Veloflex or Vittoria

mpd62

you can try the weight weenies http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... =3&t=72309 if you have a few hours spare!!

Monty Dog

I should add I've had no problems using tub tape for road tyres - Tufo and Jantex, where the pressure of the tyre keeps it firmly on the rim. For CX, the bigger tyres, lower pressure and bigger side loads means tape doesn't work IME.

John.T

Monty Dog wrote:

I should add I've had no problems using tub tape for road tyres - Tufo and Jantex, where the pressure of the tyre keeps it firmly on the rim. For CX, the bigger tyres, lower pressure and bigger side loads means tape doesn't work IME.

At least the bigger tyres do stick at the edges. It is when the tyre is a bit narrow on the rim you have problems with rolling. My 22mm Contis stick fine with tape.

mamba80

PeteMadoc wrote:

racingcondor wrote:

If you plan on repairing your own punctures then I'd avoid Conti tubs.

Essentially tubs are wrapped around the tube and sown together then base tape glued on. Unless I'm misremembering it Conti's tubs are made in a slightly different way which makes getting past the glued layers much harder.

Gonna stick to Veloflex or Vittoria

The Conti GP4000 Tub is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired but other Conti s like the Competition or Sprinter are easily repaired.
Vitt and Velo are latex tubes and their tubs, whilst they give a good ride etc are perhaps more fragile than conti, with Vitt CX SX the base tape is overlaid with latex type solution making removal a pia.

racingcondor

Thanks Mamba, good to know (especially as it means I may be able to use sprinters on the track bike next year).

petemadoc

mpd62 wrote:

you can try the weight weenies http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... =3&t=72309 if you have a few hours spare!!

Thanks for the comments peeps

I had a look at the weight weenies thread the other day. It's seems they like to over complicate what is a relatively simple topic. How on earth they've reached 160+ pages :shock: That's more than the Lance Armstrong thread over in pro race!!

After muchos research I've settled on the following items

white spirit to remove old glue, Veloflex criterium 22mm tyres, vittoria mastik one glue, old pre-glued tub as a backup, tuffo extreme sealant as a last resort which requires valve extenders where you pull out the core and re-install it at the end of the extender

Job done, just a shame I won't be testing them out until the spring

petemadoc

Thread resurrection

What tub do people recommend as a spare. I'm thinking thin like 19mm, light and small and cheap.

Just thinking ahead, I'm going to try and repair my own tubs and I've bought a tub specific needle and thread for a massive £1.50. I've read that latex carpet glue and a piece of an old latex inner tube are the best thing to use, have I got that right. Lastly it doesn't seem very obvious how you would remove the base tape, how does that work then?

Diamant49

These

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/TBTUELJET/tufo_elite_jet__160g_tubular_tyre

Squeeze all the air out, roll up really and hold with an elastic band or velcro strap. Not much bigger than a normal inner tube then - small enough to carry two when I am on a longer ride.

Have to admit I have never had to use one - in many years of using tubs only ever punctured once on the road (hexed that now!!!) - last puncture was using the turbo, when the heat softened the tyre and a tiny piece of glass worked its way through.

thegreatdivide

I removed a tub from a carbon rim the other week, not out of necessity but noob fear. I thought I hadn’t glued it very well (yip, noob) but I had. Anyway it needed re mounted so I decided to take the quite substantial amount of glue off the rim. Tried to take it off with pure acetone (purchased from eBay) as advised by Zipp, no use. Then I used Park Chain Brite which is a citrus degreaser and good for all surfaces, not bad but still not very effective against the big bits. Zipp also recommend Goofoff but that’s not available in the UK – however you get this citrus thing called Sticky Stuff Remover from hobby shops, B&Q etc and prior to Chain Brite I used it to get rid of stubborn oil stains on white bits of bike as well as running a chain through it. Anyway, stick some on a rag and apply to the glue. Go and make a cup of tea or post some drivel on here – after 10 mins you can start attacking the glue and it comes off very easily – like big chunks of snot. Once you’ve got the majority of it off the rim you can start to use the acetone. After an afternoon in front of Stage 15 of this year’s Tour I had my rim back to its factory fresh state and ready for re gluing.

So there’s a noob’s guide to getting glue off a carbon rim.

Anonymous

Hi all, new to forum (other than lurking a bit when searches brought me here) and tubs.

Just fitted some Tufo S3's to carbon rims using Tufo tape.
All went very well* and cannot wait to see if the aero rims/tubs improve my time trial times.

*Only slight thing was that the first wheel I put tape on ended up having a couple of air bubbles and not as good as the perfect job I made using a different technic on the second wheel.

Can you peel a tub off and use it again, or does it bugger the tub?
Also, how easy is it to get Tufo tape off the rim?
No plans to do it just yet but its bugging me lol.

Rich.H

thegreatdivide,

What brand of glue did you remove?

After 3 tyres my rear tub rim, I think it's time to remove the old glue (Mastick One)

Cheers

Rich

thegreatdivide

Same as you, Vittoria Mastick One.

pliptrot

Any notes/experience on incompatibilities between particular tub brands and glueing products? Tufo pressure activating tape looks good but I have Conti (Competition) and Vittoria (Corsa CX) tubs.

ugo.santalucia

pliptrot wrote:

Any notes/experience on incompatibilities between particular tub brands and glueing products? Tufo pressure activating tape looks good but I have Conti (Competition) and Vittoria (Corsa CX) tubs.

As usual, someone ends up thinking there is more technology in these products than there actually is. An adhesive is an adhesive and it will stick... it is possible that tufo tubulars are designed to be taped rather than glued, but there is nothing particularly special about Tufo tape... except you peel off a plastic layer instead of a paper one, as you do for the Velox. The plastic is easier to peel off without tearing it apart, but of course Tufo tape is a lot more expensive... so my advice is to use Velox tape at home and carry with you a length of Tufo tape for when you are on the road and can't deal with the paper tearing apart... that's what I do

petemadoc

Anyone got any recommendations for a spare?

Ideally under £30

ugo.santalucia

PeteMadoc wrote:

Anyone got any recommendations for a spare?

Ideally under £30

Maybe a Gatorskin, but they don't fold very tight and take a lot of space. ideally i would use the same as you have on, so you don't have to change it twice

petemadoc

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

Anyone got any recommendations for a spare?

Ideally under £30

Maybe a Gatorskin, but they don't fold very tight and take a lot of space. ideally i would use the same as you have on, so you don't have to change it twice

Yeah I want something small and light. Was thinking one of those light tufo's but they're expensive.

Not worried about changing the tyre twice as I would want to re-glue the tyre when I get home anywways

Anonymous

Please pardon my ignorance but this all seems a lot of hassle to save 100g per wheel over clinchers. Are there any other advantages? I'm on the hunt for a race wheel so intrigued by tubulars as they seem the done thing on race wheels, I'm just not sure why?

mitchgixer6

The main thing for me (over the weight savings and better ride quality and less rolling resistance) is the reduced chance of punctures. As far as I read tubs are very unlikely to pinch flat. I had a pinch flat (using clinchers) in a Road Race last year that effectively put me out of the race. If using tubs this year prevents that then it will be well worth any extra hassle mounting them.

Anonymous

hutchy_belfast wrote:

Please pardon my ignorance but this all seems a lot of hassle to save 100g per wheel over clinchers. Are there any other advantages? I'm on the hunt for a race wheel so intrigued by tubulars as they seem the done thing on race wheels, I'm just not sure why?

I was in the same position as I wanted a fast aero wheelset for time trials.
I thought I would try tubulars as it seemed odd to want a fast wheel and not try them.

As has been said they should be lighter, run at higher pressures, roll better and feel better.

I found it a bit of a faff but I am glad I took this route.
I fitted them properly two days ago and have only been up and down the road on them so far (on a small section of dry road) so cannot give much feedback on use/performance but they look/feel great!

I really enjoyed the process and feel more involved with the sport and more 'connected' to my bike.
A little bit like the feeling of using pedals/cleats/roadshoes

I used Tufo S3 Lites/Tufo Tape/70mm extenders (for 80mm rims). I got some 100% Acetone from a local nailcare shop (to degrease carbon rims) and I pre stretched the rims for a few days (made it a whole lot easier).
All went well although I only perfected putting the tape on when doing the second wheel. Also probably could have gotten away with 60mm extenders.

I only got them for 10 mile time trials initially, but will see how they go ;-)

bernithebiker

I use Vittoria CX tubs on Mavic Ultimates. Very light setup, quite aero, and rides very smoothly.

As I'm increasing my mileage this winter, I planned on putting my Rolf Sestriere clinchers on to 'save' the tubs.

I lasted 2 days. The drop in comfort was very noticeable, the extra weight too, and at high speeds, the lack of aero could be felt too. They also look awful!

The Ultimates went back on, and they're staying on. Life's too short!

Not only do tubs puncture less, but I just carry a can of foam sealant with me, which worked a treat when I had to use it a few weeks ago.

petemadoc

bernithebiker wrote:

As I'm increasing my mileage this winter, I planned on putting my Rolf Sestriere clinchers on to 'save' the tubs.

I lasted 2 days. The drop in comfort was very noticeable, the extra weight too, and at high speeds, the lack of aero could be felt too. They also look awful!

You ride a £2000 wheelset with £50 tubular tyres on icy salty roads?

Personally I don't mind riding heavy slow stuff in the winter, although I do like a bit of comfort. Come summer I'm going to ride my new tubs as much as possible (ie not just races). Can't afford or justify riding good stuff while the roads are covered in wet salty cr4p though.

ugo.santalucia

PeteMadoc wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

As I'm increasing my mileage this winter, I planned on putting my Rolf Sestriere clinchers on to 'save' the tubs.

I lasted 2 days. The drop in comfort was very noticeable, the extra weight too, and at high speeds, the lack of aero could be felt too. They also look awful!

You ride a £2000 wheelset with £50 tubular tyres on icy salty roads?

Personally I don't mind riding heavy slow stuff in the winter, although I do like a bit of comfort. Come summer I'm going to ride my new tubs as much as possible (ie not just races). Can't afford or justify riding good stuff while the roads are covered in wet salty cr4p though.

At least he has a reason to get new wheels... Many barely ride them and then upgrade to something else. The sales section is littered of carbon wheels barely ridden

bernithebiker

PeteMadoc wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

As I'm increasing my mileage this winter, I planned on putting my Rolf Sestriere clinchers on to 'save' the tubs.

I lasted 2 days. The drop in comfort was very noticeable, the extra weight too, and at high speeds, the lack of aero could be felt too. They also look awful!

You ride a £2000 wheelset with £50 tubular tyres on icy salty roads?

Personally I don't mind riding heavy slow stuff in the winter, although I do like a bit of comfort. Come summer I'm going to ride my new tubs as much as possible (ie not just races). Can't afford or justify riding good stuff while the roads are covered in wet salty cr4p though.

I'm lucky enough to live in Western France, where we have yet to have below +2'C, let alone snow. Yesterday was +8, dry and sunnyish.

If it was icy or peeing down with rain, I just wouldn't go out at all.

Oh and I got them for £1000, nearly new, and I paid 40 Euros for each tub.