Campag, 9 speed cassette problem and chain rub

bing gordon
bing gordon Posts: 662
edited November 2012 in Workshop
I'm recently bought a 2nd hand Trek 2300 Campagnolo groupset and I'm trying to set it up as a winter bike. I stripped a fair few bits down to clean but I'm not sure how the 9 speed and spacing went i didnt make a note.
There are 5 yellow spacers of the same size , a much larger yellow spacer, and on the largest cog a black spacer that's the same size as the smaller yellow one's.This spacer has lugs that only allow it to fit to the largest cog and three little holes in the black spacer that line up with the biggest cog.

does this spacer face towards the bike or away from the bike ?. The reason i ask is, when the chain is on the smaller front ring/chainset and on the smallest ring on the back the chain catches rubs / grinds against the largest front ring.

I'm beginning to think I've wrongly put the cassette and spacers back together.I can put some pic's up if needed.

Comments

  • here's some pics ;-
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/81502145@N ... hotostream
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/81502145@N ... hotostream
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/81502145@N ... hotostream
    One picture shows the chain rub on the big ring,
    another shows the order i had the rings on the rear cassette when laid out ( ignore if the ring is facing the correct way, its just the way i laid them out)
    and the last shows how the rear cassette looked when mounted on the wheel n bike.The spacer nearest the bike ( black spacer) is smaller than the next one is that right ?.

    does it all look right ? and why is the chain rubbing against the big ring ?.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    You will know if the cassette spacers are mixed up as it won't index well. The spacers in campag cassettes are not of uniform thickness as some sprockets are dished. The centre to centre spacing of each sproacket is 4.55mm though. The chain rub on the front will be down to the front mech not being set up correctly or the BB axle is too short. Also some chain rub is to be expected when cross chaining anyway which is why campag front shifters are not indexed.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Is the largest sprocket dished? In which case the dish should be towards the wheel and explain the narrower spacer. Chain rub is almost certain with modern bike transmissions - just don't run the chain on the small sprockets when in the big rig. Besides, it's less efficient and causes premature chain wear.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • the frame has "campagnolo" written on it so I'm assuming and by the looks/age of the groupset it's the original 9 speed groupset that came off the shop floor when new.
    I've never owned a bike with campagnolo and be truthful I only bought the bike because it had Mavic Kysrium Elite wheels on it which i am definitely going to keep .
    Will the frame and campagnolo groupset be worth anything ? its got a campagnolo 9 speed rear mech and 9 speed carbon BB system levers.eBay is showing some crazy prices for the levers which can't be right can it ?.

    the shifters are identical to these but with abit more wear and tear on the writing.

    http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32548.0
  • davem399
    davem399 Posts: 269
    Monty Dog wrote:
    - just don't run the chain on the small sprockets when in the big rig.

    That's not right - it should be don't use the big chainring with the large sprockets (and similarly don't use the small ring with the smaller sprockets).
  • DaveM399 wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    - just don't run the chain on the small sprockets when in the big rig.

    That's not right - it should be don't use the big chainring with the large sprockets (and similarly don't use the small ring with the smaller sprockets).


    When did that rule come out :shock:
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    To be honest, that doesn't look like a Campag 9 speed cassette I've seen:

    8154677532_23fd0fbe69.jpg

    Could it be an after-market one?

    And like other posters have said, misaligned spacers will result in bad indexing - but they shouldn't effect the 'position' of the smallest sprocket as all the spacer widths added together should be the same whichever order.

    How old is the frame? the only time I've really seen a cassette badly out of line was when the rear wheel's hub was wider that the original distance between the rear frame dropouts and the frame had been cold-set to widen it (steel frame). This put the whole cassette out further than it should have been - compared to the front chainset.

    Is it a really small frame - or very short chain stays? That could compound cross-chaining (you shouldn't really be riding small to small but it shouldn't foul like that).
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    Ah-ha - found it.

    That's a Mavic cassette (probably an M10):

    http://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/506386/

    from the Mavic docs:

    http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic/uk ... cement.pdf

    It's a cassette that can be built into 9 (yellow spacers) or 10 (black spacers) speed campag cassette or Shimano (grey spacers). It also talks of an extra 'positioning' spacer (footnote page 8) that shouldn't be used on campag setups. Could you have that installed by mistake (probably between the hub flange and the biggest sprocket)?
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    Forgot to say, to check the chain-line, put the chain on the largest chain ring at the front and the forth smallest chain ring at the back (from campag 9 and 10 speed manuals). If you now look down the chain line from the rear of the bike, the chain, large chain-ring and that sprocket should ideally be in line with very little deflection in the chain. If the chain is deflecting out away from the plane of the large chain-ring, then the chain-line is messed up.
  • Thanks for that g00se good spot ,,,
    right im gonna look a bit of a fool here so go easy :):)

    it seems its a mavic rear wheel n shimano freehub , i'd just never seen a campag freehub and the cassette looked different from other shimano cassettes so i just took it as been a campag cause of the groupset on the bike.

    my LBS has a spare campag rear with a 9 speed i can have. One a similar thing , the rear mech cable needs changing. Is a campag gear cable different from other cables ?. Reason i ask is , the stop end head that sits in the shifter is awfully small , alot smaller than any cable end i got spare.
    any links would be great , and thanks for the help. . . i feel like a right pleb now :(
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    My bad on previous post - small chainring + small sprocket = chain rub

    Chainline comment is spurious - chainline is not adjustable as it is a cartridge BB.

    Campagnolo gear cables have a smaller nipple than Shimano i.e. Shimano don't fit unless you file it down, but don't be tempted to bodge it as they're a b*gger to get out if stuck.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    A bit more on campag cables in addition to what Monty said. If you buy a new cable set, then make sure it's outers for the older 9 and 10 speed groups. The more recent Ultrashift and Powershift sets (new shape levers) have even narrower gear outers and does not need ferrules in the levers.

    Also, Unsure about Shimano - but Campag gear outers are thinner than their brake outers too - so brake outer ferrules won't work either.
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221


    Sorry - its late :) I misread the thread as meaning the outer ferrules fitting into the levers - not the cable end. Yes - you need Campag specific ones. Shimano ones are larger and a slightly different shape. Use the wrong cable and it'll jam. Those in the link should be fine.