Are Helmets Important and Why?

greymatter400

Hi All,

This is my first post, please be gentle.

I'm a researcher at a Loughborough University in the UK and i am hoping to get some advice around my area of study. I have a link to a 2min questionnaire that i would be grateful if you could fill out to help inform my direction.

http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/1070905/B ... met-Survey

Regards,

Dr Jonah B

Grill

Rubbish survey. Why do I wear a helmet? Come on. Also, who the hell considers storage when they buy a helmet?

greymatter400

Thanks for taking part Grill. Im sorry you feel that way. This is a brief, initial survey with a more robust one to follow once i have direction.

I do however, feel there are valid questions that need answering. As an engineer and having worked in the sports field for over 6 years you i am amazed that people still buy things based on little to no scientific backing, although manufactures will market these items as having a performance (or safety) advancement.

regards,

JB

owenlars

I wear them because they almost certainly do no harm and might just save me from a nasty head injury, or worse.

drlodge

I think the answer you need will come from the department of the bleedin obvious.

chrisaonabike

Question 5 should have check boxes, not radio buttons. I use my bike for recreational training, but not competition.

Question 7 should have an "almost always" option - there's a big difference between always and sometimes.

Question 10. I initially thought storage was a bit of a daft concept. But in fairness I suppose it's quite handy to put small things like mitts and lights into after a ride.

Also, the priorities are very much dependent on one another, so having to rank them like that is completely misleading. I was led to believe for example that all helmets have to meet a minimum safety level, so price and comfort then become tradeoffs.

greymatter400

Owenlars, thanks for your comments. Its a nice thought, but unfortunately its not as simple as that. I have read many academic papers, spoken to experts in the medical and automotive fields and carried out my own research regarding head impacts and the benefits from helmets. It would be far to long winded to explain this forum in this forum, simply, wearing one can (in some cases) increase the risk of injury. It not to dissimilar to the scrum caps worn by rugby players, they offer protection against cuts but little to no against impacts. When you look at the standards for helmets it opens a can of worms.

Thanks for your feedback.

greymatter400

ChrisAOnABike,

Thanks for your feedback, this was somewhat of a limitation with the survey and i totally agree with your points.

In response to you last comment, you are right that helmets pass a standard but as you quoted, its "basic". Are these standards even representative of real life conditions? and does that mean if they pass they will protect us?

Also, I understand your point about the trade off and it makes sense, but why should we compromise between price and comfort? I for one would love to see the price differential based on a performance enhancement not a comfort enhancement, that should be standard. But that's just my view point.

Thanks again for taking the time, its really appreciated

Regards

waterford123

I like greymatter400, calm, relaxed and rational. You won't fit in on this forum.

greymatter400

thanks waterford123, im trying. It is only my first day though remember!!!lol

petemadoc

Can opened......

Worms all over the floor

greymatter400

PeteMadoc, thats good, i never said it was a bad thing, on the contrary!!

enjoy!!

northpole

It would be far to long winded to explain this forum in this forum, simply, wearing one can (in some cases) increase the risk of injury. It not to dissimilar to the scrum caps worn by rugby players, they offer protection against cuts but little to no against impacts.

I'm sure there are always exceptions however, there have (thankfully) only been a few occasions where falls have been accompanied by head impacts. I came off last year when my rear tyre slid out from under me with no warning. Hip, shoulder and head banged onto the road. Helmet was terminally cracked and binned. Another incident last year where one of our group was daydreaming and missed the shouts and signals to slow - he banged into the back of me and landed on his back on the road - helmet smashed. A few years back another friend came off while descending a steep hill - he ended up with his arm in plaster and a few cuts and bruises - his helmet was smashed to pieces. I am no doctor however, I have no doubt whatsoever that in each one of the three incidents I outlined above, failure to have worn a helmet would have resulted in head injuries, one or two possibly serious.

I'm sure someone will point out where helmets can be dangerous, but I presume that in the round, they add considerably to one's safety. I am particularly paranoid about riding round London and the dangers posed by kerb stones at road sides.

Peter

greymatter400

Hi Peter

Many thanks for sharing your experiences-very useful to hear these. The focus of this survey is to assess general perceptions. I believe the position we are in may be that helmets are protective in some instances but potentially not optimised. At this stage I would like to keep an open mind and value your comments.

Regards

JB

chrisaonabike

greymatter400 wrote:

In response to you last comment, you are right that helmets pass a standard but as you quoted, its "basic". Are these standards even representative of real life conditions? and does that mean if they pass they will protect us?

The short answer is, I really have no idea. 25 years ago when I last had a bike, no one that I knew wore a helmet. Did they even exist in the 70s/80s? In truth, the most pressing reason I got a helmet was that my other half bought me my bike as a present, and said "if you want it, you have to get a helmet - and wear it!!".

I then rationalised it all, since obviously, helmet wearing appears sensible - I imagine (but that's all it is) that it will reduce the likelihood of serious injury - in some circumstances - since I assume that anything that spreads an impact load will reduce the likelihood of skull fracture, and anything that absorbs energy should leave less to be absorbed by my brain as it bounces around inside. So I live in hope - but I'm not a materials scientist.

I read somewhere that there was a new design of helmet that absorbed rotational energy as well as that arising from direct impacts. I can imagine that that would give protection in more complex impacts than helmets with designs that don't do that. But ISTR is was over £200 - in reality, that's really a lot.

Also, I understand your point about the trade off and it makes sense, but why should we compromise between price and comfort?

I can't see there being any option. A lighter helmet, that fits really well (because of cleverer adjustment points perhaps), and is still just as strong (or whatever quality it needs) will be more expensive to manufacture. And manufacturers will want to make a profit, so they will charge a premium for higher quality.

I for one would love to see the price differential based on a performance enhancement ...

A 50% premium maybe. But a factor of 10 or 15 or more??? (I spent £23 on a Giro Indicator, which fits reasonably well, is reasonably light, and AFAIK is as safe as anything else).

Of course, the pros all get expensive helmets so maybe the additional safety won't make such a big % difference to theirs.

Incidentally, if it is not true that all helmets offer the same level of protection, why is there not a well-publicised scale of 'protectability', on which all manufacturers have to declare where their helmets lie?

And even in the absence of such a scale, why don't the manufacturers of the safer helmets claim that that's what they are?

Joeblack

Interesting reading so far, you clearly know more about the science than I do, I will however pass on my thoughts/reasons regarding helmets.

I used to ride with a cap on (backwards I might add ) and the misses didn't like it all, so I got the inevitable questions, "when are you going to buy a helmet?" I didn't like any that I tried on, I just felt I looked ridiculous and couldn't get over it, so put it off with the excuse "iv heard your more likely to get hit by car because motorists don't give you as much room with a helmet on" I'd heard this a long time ago on tv, I don't know how reliable the study was behind it.

However the more i climbed aboard my bike, fully Lycra clad, I would feel as if part of my 'uniform' was missing!! I'd ride past other like minded Lycra clad roadies and would instantly think "bet he thinks I'm a t#%t for not wearing a helmet" and as quickly as I'd get over this I couldn't help but think I needed to finish off my outfit.

Eventually I found a helmet that I liked (lazer o2) and after purchasing and wearing for a couple of rides I felt happy and that I'd done the right thing.

Now I will be honest and say that if all helmets fit me like for example a giro (looked horrendous) I still think that to this day id be wearing a cap and no helmet.

Do I think it will save my life or reduce the risk of serious injury whilst on my bike? I really don't know, but I know I do feel safer when hammering down a hill so that can only be a good thing

Cheers Anthony

petemadoc

I'd love to see the evidence that wearing a helmet increases the risk of injury. This would open up some serious discussion based on scientific facts instead of just "I fell of and hit my head" etc etc.

Incidentally I've got a great anecdotal story about seat belts. A friend wasn't wearing a seatbelt in the rear of a car that flipped over, he was thrown into the front of the vehicle and the bck was crushed. The firecrew who got him out said that not wearing a seatbelt saved his life. So in conclusion, in certain circumstances it's safer to not wear a seatbelt.

petemadoc

Just for the record I'm not for or against helmet use. Cycling is pretty low risk bit when riding off road, racing or generally riding fast I wear one. Each to their own. I have to ask, why the storage question, bit weird.

wishitwasallflat

Are brains remaining inside skulls important and Why?

Would you buy a bigger skull if it had more storage?

ricky1980

i don't think you need a survey to tell you this

1) most people wear helmets is for safety reasons...unless you are an idiot thinking it's "cool and fashionable" to wear a helmet...especially those condom cap shaped things...

2) most people would put price and comfort in the top priority. As long as the helmet is crash proofed i think no one is fussed about which one is more robust than the other. Most people once looked beyond price and comfort tend to look at helmet weight and god saves us all - STYLE, no those Condom cap helmets are still outrageously ugly and make you look like a NAZI on push bikes...not cool yo!

3) most people would love to have those folding helmet, but if they cost 200 quid for a pop then no one will buy it other than a few "cool" kids. So instead of looking like Nazis on wheels they now look like cyberman on wheels (assuming the helmet is some kind of metallic chrome thing). However most will not expect to pay anything more than what a top brand mid-top range helmet would cost

4) safety...as i said long as they are crash proofed and they keep your skull intact and keep your brain and other facial organs in your skull i can't see how one is substantially more safe than other. so the question is kind useless. unless you are looking to invent those wipelash proof helmets like the motorbike and motor racing ones...maybe a market for the elite sports, but for average Joe...it will again make you look like a massive penis by wearing it...and you will look like a skinner version of Tom Hardy in dark knight rises...you will probably get beat up by teenagers!

pilot_pete

Car pulled out in front of a mate, right outside a mutual doctor friend's surgery! He hit the front wing, head smashed the screen and he continued over the bonnet to land in the road. I saw the photos of the car which was really damaged- screen, wing, bonnet etc. Doctor mate (and fellow roadie) treated him in the road and advised a trip to A&E even though all he had were cuts and bruises. Doc said to us both afterwards his trashed helmet had undoubtedly prevented serious head injury, possibly even death.....

That was enough to convince me that my choice to wear a helmet is a sound one. However, you can't account for every type of incident and I am sure that at a certain angle of impact you could possibly cause neck damage etc...

PP

p1tse

Bit of a strange question especially one for university

Why do motorcyclists wear helmets?
Why do racing drivers wear helmets?
Why do American football players wear helmets?
Why do cricketers wear helmets?
Why do hockey goal keepers wear helmets?
Why do jockeys wear helmets?

the playing mantis

hmm, some random bloke doing research on a random forum, vs' the whole safety lobby and general common science consensus, and 99% of the world.

lets put it this way to the researcher. if we picked you up and chucked you head first onto the road would yourather have a helmet on or not.

my ask who s funding this research?????

ricky1980

the playing mantis wrote:

my ask who s funding this research?????

i think this is just for fun for him, the questions are quite generic and no one can use the data to formulate any useful conclusion tbh...

wellbeloved747

This is pointless
1) you must wear one at all cycling events.
2) Why do you wear one? really?
3) folding helmets are already available
http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/p ... ing-helmet

Please find something better to do Buy an Xbox or a Ps3

wellbeloved747

This is pointless
1) you must wear one at all cycling events.
2) Why do you wear one? really?
3) folding helmets are already available
http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/p ... ing-helmet

Please find something better to do Buy an Xbox or a Ps3

Kerguelen

Everyone's missing the obvious. If you wear a lid you probably get a better payout in court.

greymatter400

Great to see the responses from everyone and useful constructive criticism. The questionnaire is open and looking to unearth early general perceptions without making assumptions or simply relying on the opinion of large organisations. I am by no means trying to imply you change any of your normal habits or make any criticisms so please do not take any offence on the questions. To clarify this is not a funded project but an interesting area that I feel needs exploring further after reading into some of the peer reviewed literature and my existing experiences in the sports equipment market.

owenlars

greymatter400 wrote:

Owenlars, thanks for your comments. Its a nice thought, but unfortunately its not as simple as that.

Sorry mate but for me it is as simple as that. A helmet might just help and is unlikely to harm. In fact the same reason I wear a helmet on a construction site even though it is unlikely to help in a fall from height. I will, however defend anyone's right not to wear a helmet whilst riding a bike.

I can't really get worked up about a theoretically possible marginal risk in certain unusual circumstances which may or may not arise from wearing a hard hat. I speak as someone who has written off a helmet through landing on my head after being hit by a mini cab.

Just as a thought what conclusion would be drawn if we found a number of people whom it could be conclusively proved had been injured because they were wearing a helmet?

Anyway good luck with the survey and please let us know your conclusions.

greymatter400

Thanks for the comment Owenlars. I would never challenge peoples experiences like the one you mention as this is an essential element to the statistics we use produce and to some extend the premise behind our opinions. So thank you for your sharing yours.

i would like to, draw upon a common theme. I would agree helmets in some cases can protect the head from impacts and i guess thats what a lot of the "blunt" comments i have received have been based upon. I have never challenged that this is not the case. My initial interest is, are they really optimised and can they be improved for everyone's safety, including adults and children?

A great last question. In practice we have no real way of knowing this other than looking at the typical forces and how this relates to injuries, a very complex and difficult area to analyse. So i guess the question that helmets " will not cause harm as a result of wearing one" is a difficult one to be a 100% sure of, and therefore is maybe something that needs to be looked at?

Thanks for all the comments

rockmonkeysc

What a terrible survey. "Why do you wear a helmet" was a particular highlight which I had to answer with the only possible response, Because the colour of my helmet compliments the colour of my eyes.