stone chip on carbon frame
mkviken
Posts: 217
i got a couple of really deep stone chips on the front of the down tube today
one is right down to the carbon - is it ok to use a car touch up paint on it or even just car touch up lacquer just to protect the carbon a bit?
will the carbon deteriorate if left to the elements?
one is right down to the carbon - is it ok to use a car touch up paint on it or even just car touch up lacquer just to protect the carbon a bit?
will the carbon deteriorate if left to the elements?
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Comments
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mkviken wrote:one is right down to the carbon - is it ok to use a car touch up paint on it or even just car touch up lacquer just to protect the carbon a bit?
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14939674mkviken wrote:will the carbon deteriorate if left to the elements?
Yes, moisture can wick into the laminate from the fibre and cause it to lose strength/integrity0 -
As said above it can wick up moisture and the carbon will separate from the resin. I'd touch it up with clear nail varnish and then polish it up.0
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ok thanks. i will touch it up tomorrow.
should a car lacquer touch up pen be ok to use or does it have to be nail varnish?
i cant see car lacquer reacting with the carbon as the frame is bare carbon lacquered anyway. anyone know for sure?
ive also bought more 3M protection film for the down tube. i ran out last time after doing the forks and chain stay etc so will bang some more on.0 -
The touch up pen should be fine if you have one, its just nail varnish is normally used. The film sounds like a good idea as well.0
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dodger421 wrote:mkviken wrote:one is right down to the carbon - is it ok to use a car touch up paint on it or even just car touch up lacquer just to protect the carbon a bit?
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14939674mkviken wrote:will the carbon deteriorate if left to the elements?
Yes, moisture can wick into the laminate from the fibre and cause it to lose strength/integrity
Absolute complete and utter bollocks0 -
Just to confirm that it is not bollocks here is a video that even mentions the fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJJxqPR2-4
My brother has also built carbon frames for many years so it seems you are the one talking the 'absolute utter b*ll*cks.'0 -
Funny that i probably know your brother then if hes a bike builder
Maybe he works for the frame factories in taiwan or in F1 or Aerospace and I can bet a pound to a penny
that I have probably built more prototype frames before they go into production than he has ever built in his life.
Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shit on forums to others who need reliable advice
Ps good link to a video of a shop guy talking bollocks ,0 -
Wow! I'm not causing an argument and the video is far from brilliant but you don't need to be so aggressive just because you are wrong. I suggest you go an build more of these 'prototype frames,' then instead of being so mindless. Its a forum, bring your opinion, but don't be so frustrated when you are proven incorrect.0
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compositepro wrote:Absolute complete and utter bollocks
Yeah you're right, there's absolutely no research on this at all;
http://wings.buffalo.edu/eng/mae/cmrl/Effect%20of%20moisture%20on%20the%20interlaminar%20interface.pdf
http://me.eng.sunysb.edu/~compmech/downloads/N29.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA0347870 -
compositepro wrote:Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
You were the one that countered someones point with the entirely unconstructive 'complete and utter bollocks'. Maybe if you'd explained your background in the first place it might have helped but as it is you've not really helped your credibility at all.
Or do you think that saying 'complete and utter bollocks' is 'reliable advice'?Faster than a tent.......0 -
compositepro wrote:Funny that i probably know your brother then if hes a bike builder
Maybe he works for the frame factories in taiwan or in F1 or Aerospace and I can bet a pound to a penny
that I have probably built more prototype frames before they go into production than he has ever built in his life.
Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
Ps good link to a video of a shop guy talking bollocks ,
No need to be so unpleasant and aggressive old chap. Why don't you enlighten us with your knowledge and wisdom and tell us why you think it's complete and utter bollocks?Trek Madone 3.5
Whyte Coniston
1970 Dawes Kingpin0 -
Ooh...... Popcorn anyone ?Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
dodger421 wrote:compositepro wrote:Absolute complete and utter bollocks
Yeah you're right, there's absolutely no research on this at all;
http://wings.buffalo.edu/eng/mae/cmrl/Effect%20of%20moisture%20on%20the%20interlaminar%20interface.pdf
http://me.eng.sunysb.edu/~compmech/downloads/N29.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA034787
I wondered when someone would goole some wing leading edges and fan blades (funny the technology we use for that is done by GE you might now want to google 3d preforms and how z axis fibres counter such a thing) we also do lots of work on this kind of thing at a place sponsored by those pesky folks who are building a carbon fibre jet0 -
Rolf F wrote:compositepro wrote:Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
You were the one that countered someones point with the entirely unconstructive 'complete and utter bollocks'. Maybe if you'd explained your background in the first place it might have helped but as it is you've not really helped your credibility at all.
Or do you think that saying 'complete and utter bollocks' is 'reliable advice'?
No was just trolling
but as an aside I dont think I need credibility either, having said that I will now retire from working in this field as Im not good at it it seems or maybe I should organise some tours of places that do carbon bobbins and then you can come and build your own carbon frames and go home happy.0 -
compositepro wrote:Rolf F wrote:compositepro wrote:Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
You were the one that countered someones point with the entirely unconstructive 'complete and utter bollocks'. Maybe if you'd explained your background in the first place it might have helped but as it is you've not really helped your credibility at all.
Or do you think that saying 'complete and utter bollocks' is 'reliable advice'?
No was just trolling
but as an aside I dont think I need credibility either,
Well that depends on whether you want to be constructive or troll doesn't it? Seems a pity if you genuinely do have the correct answer to devalue it entirely by trollish responses. That's not really helping the OP or anyone else who reads the thread. And now you are being sulky because people have responded in the way that you encouraged them to do!Faster than a tent.......0 -
p9uma wrote:compositepro wrote:Funny that i probably know your brother then if hes a bike builder
Maybe he works for the frame factories in taiwan or in F1 or Aerospace and I can bet a pound to a penny
that I have probably built more prototype frames before they go into production than he has ever built in his life.
Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
Ps good link to a video of a shop guy talking bollocks ,
No need to be so unpleasant and aggressive old chap. Why don't you enlighten us with your knowledge and wisdom and tell us why you think it's complete and utter bollocks?
I see your from bicester I spent a lot of time down there in stratton audley companies like CTG Reynard Braun Wirth research and a quick trip over to MK for another F1 company perhaps you move in similar circles ,0 -
Rolf F wrote:compositepro wrote:Rolf F wrote:compositepro wrote:Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
You were the one that countered someones point with the entirely unconstructive 'complete and utter bollocks'. Maybe if you'd explained your background in the first place it might have helped but as it is you've not really helped your credibility at all.
Or do you think that saying 'complete and utter bollocks' is 'reliable advice'?
No was just trolling
but as an aside I dont think I need credibility either,
Well that depends on whether you want to be constructive or troll doesn't it? Seems a pity if you genuinely do have the correct answer to devalue it entirely by trollish responses. That's not really helping the OP or anyone else who reads the thread. And now you are being sulky because people have responded in the way that you encouraged them to do!Rolf F wrote:compositepro wrote:Rolf F wrote:compositepro wrote:Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
You were the one that countered someones point with the entirely unconstructive 'complete and utter bollocks'. Maybe if you'd explained your background in the first place it might have helped but as it is you've not really helped your credibility at all.
Or do you think that saying 'complete and utter bollocks' is 'reliable advice'?
No was just trolling
but as an aside I dont think I need credibility either,
Well that depends on whether you want to be constructive or troll doesn't it? Seems a pity if you genuinely do have the correct answer to devalue it entirely by trollish responses. That's not really helping the OP or anyone else who reads the thread. And now you are being sulky because people have responded in the way that you encouraged them to do!
Rolf it was pointed out to me the other day that if your a dick on a forum or helpful either way your wrong!!!
Do I genuinely have an answer Yes its a bicycle touch your paint up and dont worry about the laminate onless its flaking away ?
Theres a lot I could tell you about how these things get made where the tech is heading and what is based on prior working experience and none of it is like anything your going to see till 2014 but this is because the far eastern companies are now moving to europe for tech consultation
the links above are a moot point sure use it to cross reference the latest data and theres plenty of stuff from thesis students who work at the AMRC and university in sheffield which post date the research outlined above,its not the first time the links above have cropped up in debates regarding delamination and UV resistance the fact new boeing 777 uses composite wing leading edges (and this has also been used a "look what google turned up")
Will this get touched up
Resin systems are nothing like what they were 10 years ago Ill be honest i know f-all about nanocomposites but i know the guy who just set up a facility to do non destructive testing and repair frames right across the road the most exciting thing he has is self repairing nano composites and embeded sensing in the laminate to know when its failed,will you ever see it on a bike ,sure if someone will pay enough money but do you want to
just think how cool it would be to know your carbon bike will heal itself or you could plug it in and it would tell you its feeling a bit off today
5 years ago when we were designing volvo ocean race boats and there was a lot of research done on water and ice then which erm made it very very unlikely water ingress was ever going to be an issue and these things hit whales doing quite considerable speed and suffer a lot of abrasion from sand ,which begs the question
FWIW its a bike frame its never going to see UV degradation at 30,000 feet or ice up on its leading edges allowing the water to expand and contribute to delamination ,if its already delaminated from a stone chip its not going to be save by sealing it from water (and poor quality processing does happen when manufacturers are trying to push through as many frames as they can in a day, Ive seen 3 fail and 2 survive from the same test batch and then been asked whats wrong) my only chagrin is that some poor sod is worried about the chip he has in a frame and someone has possibly lit a fuse in his head that if water gets in the fibres it will be the death knell of his pride and joy it irks me am i apologetic at being a dick...no0 -
compositepro wrote:p9uma wrote:compositepro wrote:Funny that i probably know your brother then if hes a bike builder
Maybe he works for the frame factories in taiwan or in F1 or Aerospace and I can bet a pound to a penny
that I have probably built more prototype frames before they go into production than he has ever built in his life.
Crawl back in your bullshit hole and carry on regardless but try and stop talking shoot on forums to others who need reliable advice
Ps good link to a video of a shop guy talking bollocks ,
No need to be so unpleasant and aggressive old chap. Why don't you enlighten us with your knowledge and wisdom and tell us why you think it's complete and utter bollocks?
I see your from bicester I spent a lot of time down there in stratton audley companies like CTG Reynard Braun Wirth research and a quick trip over to MK for another F1 company perhaps you move in similar circles ,
I live in the next village to Stratton Audley, and cycle round it and through it nearly every day. I probably don't move in similar circles, I try to avoid socialising with unhelpful and disagreeable people.Trek Madone 3.5
Whyte Coniston
1970 Dawes Kingpin0 -
Like it or not, at least ompositepro has put the record straight(er), maybe he needs to work on his softer skills, though.
LOL at everyone being so offended by him, at least he wasn't spouting rubbish :-)0 -
frig me...
so to go back to the original question is it safe to use lacquer touch up pens on my frame or is it best to just leave it?0 -
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I love it when you come on threads with such a simple question and you see people battling it out like little girls who recently found out the meaning of a big word or two! Brilliant!
OP, yes touch it up with the pen.
Not sure what the hell I'd do with a matt black frame though!0 -
ethanhayes wrote:OP, yes touch it up with the pen.
Not sure what the hell I'd do with a matt black frame though!
Matt black enamel paint? Or not worry as it will end up an untidy mishmash of matt and shiny in the long run anyway!Faster than a tent.......0 -
Op all it will do is cover a paint blemish it might stop paint peeling and thats it and unfortunately for you if your going down the road of following the read ad regurgitates who don't design frames or layups then just remember epoxy and carbon won't be affected by paint in fact it won't be affected if you submerge it in acetone to strip the thing completely
I love the threads where , the we read it on google , I'm better than you because I do not argue and tread carefully round what I say because it might not endeterms to that ere herd the masses crowd on a forum .
Damn right pr folks don't like me because their shit doesn't make good reading
I'm up for doing tours though last time I offered the Internet gobshites soon changed their attcks0 -
i touched it up with some blue model paint and it wasnt a bad match. the black parts (FOCUS writing) i did with car black paint pen i had and it came out really good. i will apply lacquer over both colours tomorrow when its dry
the parts where it was just the clear coat scratched i touched in with the lacquer and it came out pretty good. i noticed once the clear is damaged it is very easy for it to spread.
ive bought some more 3M clear film so will apply a sticker over the top once its all dry.0 -
incidentally i realised its not a stone chip but from another bikes pedal rubbing on my bike while in transit for a ride at the weekend. pretty frigged off about it but never mind.0
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Clearly compositepro you are an expert in this field, thank you for your informative posts on the topic.
I apologise for using go to google links, however I don't have access to the course notes for the aerospace composites course I did last year. The advice and information given to us was quite emphatic on the dangers caused by moisture wicking and subsequent delamination. It did mention z-axis fibres and preforms, but these did not apply to the structures we currently work on.
Hence my clearly inadequate advice to coat and prevent any subsequent failures.
Thank you again for giving us more of an insight, and better information.0 -
compositepro wrote:Op all it will do is cover a paint blemish it might stop paint peeling and thats it and unfortunately for you if your going down the road of following the read ad regurgitates who don't design frames or layups then just remember epoxy and carbon won't be affected by paint in fact it won't be affected if you submerge it in acetone to strip the thing completely
I love the threads where , the we read it on google , I'm better than you because I do not argue and tread carefully round what I say because it might not endeterms to that ere herd the masses crowd on a forum .
Damn right pr folks don't like me because their shoot doesn't make good reading
I'm up for doing tours though last time I offered the Internet gobshites soon changed their attcks
Eh? What?Trek Madone 3.5
Whyte Coniston
1970 Dawes Kingpin0
