Is Wiggo the first ever 'clean' T de F winner then?

raymondo60

The Lance Armstrong debate goes on (and on and on and on), but are we missing a more important, and positive point? With all the arguments about who doped, who didn't etc, there is one rider, a winner of the world's greatest cycling race, who has pro-actively declared his abhorrance of those taking performance enhancing drugs, who is so determined to ride clean that he (and his team) are willing to publsh his blood data and other info online. A man who will vehemently deny any wrongdoing and use quite a lot of rude words doing so. And he's British. Step forward Mr Bradley Wiggins. I may be doing a diservice to Cadel Evans here,but I don't think Cadel has made such a public and vociferous declaration against doping as Bradley has. And anyway he's Australian.

So, in the history of the Grand Boucle, is the first ever, definitively clean winner, actually a Brit?

Wouldn't that be something......

tailwindhome

Can open. Worms everywhere.

RichN95.

The Tour has been going for 109 years. There will have been plenty of others. Bartali and LeMond are two names that immediately come to mind.

He's probably just the first clean winner since last year.

Turfle

Of recent winners there's not much reason to suspect Evans or Sastre.

Eyorerox

This mostly US forum does not agree with you, of course its just the internet and no one actually knows anything. Such a shame now that when a sportsperson does well they are accused of doping.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/doping ... 84791.html

TheEnglishman

Eyorerox wrote:

This mostly US forum does not agree with you, of course its just the internet and no one actually knows anything. Such a shame now that when a cyclist does well they are accused of doping.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/doping ... 84791.html

It's not sport in general, just cycling.

Yellow Peril

Sorry Raymondo it smacks as a bit of a Trolling thread.

andy_wrx

It's a known fact that all dodgy foreigners are cheats and the only honest sportsmen are British

That's why we won the war


:roll:

TheBigBean

Short answer: no.

liquor box

Raymondo60 wrote:

The Lance Armstrong debate goes on (and on and on and on), but are we missing a more important, and positive point? With all the arguments about who doped, who didn't etc, there is one rider, a winner of the world's greatest cycling race, who has pro-actively declared his abhorrance of those taking performance enhancing drugs, who is so determined to ride clean that he (and his team) are willing to publsh his blood data and other info online. A man who will vehemently deny any wrongdoing and use quite a lot of rude words doing so. And he's British. Step forward Mr Bradley Wiggins. I may be doing a diservice to Cadel Evans here,but I don't think Cadel has made such a public and vociferous declaration against doping as Bradley has. And anyway he's Australian.

So, in the history of the Grand Boucle, is the first ever, definitively clean winner, actually a Brit?

Wouldn't that be something......

This is all very well, but remember that Lance probably would have also done this in the past, if he passed 500 tests then he obviously would have been able to publish clean data.

Ever since (and possibly before) the BALCO issues in the US it has become obvious that drug takers are a step ahead of the testers. Theoretically Wiggins could be taking some new substance that is not known to anyone else and theirfore has no test availiable.

I sincerely hope he is clean, but to assume that only an honest non cheat would offer his blood is a bit naive. The only person to offer his blood is someone who knows they wont test positive

ReesA

If they are all clean and want the sport to be drug free you'd expect them to line up to celebrate what has been happening in the past few days. After all they probably all knew exactly what was going on better than anyone else. To my mind if the riders aren't going public then something is still very wrong. (The reason I make this comment here is that surely Wiggo should be saying something as the TDF winner and patron and as a guy with an anti drugs stance and as a member of a team with an apparently anti drugs stance)

tim000

maybe he will when he sobbers up

Richmond Racer

Just posted in another thread but Gustav Larsson's the first top pro to speak out - and not in support of Lance...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/larsson ... g-decision

raymondo60

Yellow Peril wrote:

Sorry Raymondo it smacks as a bit of a Trolling thread.

YP, I genuinely and honestly don't know what constitutes a trolling' thread. I certainly would not wish to show any lack of etiquette or disrespect these forums in any way, as I derive great pleasure from chatting with you lot. If I have fallen foul in any way, I would apologise profusely and ask for guidance so I don't repeat any errors.

Thanks

esafosfina

Just a thought... if a rider's team-mates were charged to the gills (but not said rider) and the help those team-mates gave to rider constituted a victory for aforementioned rider (ffs, this is confusing even for me!) do we consider it a 'clean' win? Not suggesting anything about SKY... but maybe in the past this has happened... like I say - just a hypothetical...

oldwelshman

sastra, evans, lemonde, not sure about shrek!!

raymondo60

The moral of the story is.....can we be sure of any of them? I'll blatantly stake my rep on Wiggo - no reason other than blind faith which I know sets me up as a dope (no pun intended)

andy_wrx

esafosfina wrote:

Just a thought... if a rider's team-mates were charged to the gills (but not said rider) and the help those team-mates gave to rider constituted a victory for aforementioned rider (ffs, this is confusing even for me!) do we consider it a 'clean' win? Not suggesting anything about SKY... but maybe in the past this has happened... like I say - just a hypothetical...

The clean rider would have to be better than his charged-up team-mates in order to beat them, as well as the opposition

In the Armstrong case, the conspiracy was about not just encouraging his team-mates to dope, but also supplying and actively dosing and transfusing them, so that he could win

Big difference to me in the amount of guilt between individually doping yourself, and supplying and doping other people too, in order to win

dougzz

Raymondo60 wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

Sorry Raymondo it smacks as a bit of a Trolling thread.

YP, I genuinely and honestly don't know what constitutes a trolling' thread. I certainly would not wish to show any lack of etiquette or disrespect these forums in any way, as I derive great pleasure from chatting with you lot. If I have fallen foul in any way, I would apologise profusely and ask for guidance so I don't repeat any errors.
Thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
In fairness, anyone starting a thread about Armstrong or Contador could be accused of this.

oldwelshman

dougzz wrote:

Raymondo60 wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

Sorry Raymondo it smacks as a bit of a Trolling thread.

YP, I genuinely and honestly don't know what constitutes a trolling' thread. I certainly would not wish to show any lack of etiquette or disrespect these forums in any way, as I derive great pleasure from chatting with you lot. If I have fallen foul in any way, I would apologise profusely and ask for guidance so I don't repeat any errors.
Thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
In fairness, anyone starting a thread about Armstrong or Contador could be accused of this.

Not really as both have been banned for doping

powerbookboy

Wait 10 years and we might be able to answer that question. In the meantime, fingers crossed...