Insurance replacement - replacing a discontinued model

espencer86
espencer86 Posts: 15
edited August 2012 in Road buying advice
A car pulled across my path on the way home from work today and I had no way of avoiding it and went in to the side at about 15-18mph. My bike is totalled the front wheel rim is destroyed and the frame is totally KO'd, the top tube and down tube have crumpled and bent as they absorbed the impact (of my 107kg frame going from 18 to 0 rapidly).

The driver was very apologetic and accepted responsibility. I have the deails and a witness. He also gave me a lift home and I am uninjured so no real harm done. Just a bit shaken and a few bashes to the body.

Anyway, my Cannondale CAAD9 was my first road bike and it was amazing, I did a few thousand miles on it and commuted for almost 2 years on it. Totally gutted that it has been destroyed and obviously can't just get a new one due to them being discontinued.

My 'best' bike is a Cannondale Supersix Evo Sram Red which is only three months old and was bought because I got on so well with the geometry of the CAAD9 and I don't want to change and get used to a new bike, especially because it helps having the same set up on both bikes.

My research indicates that the CAAD10 is the equivalent current equivalent Cannondale as the CAAD8 has different geometry. Does anyone know how an insurance company will deal with this? It is a 20 month old CAAD9 Tiagra which was £1000 new but with £250 upgraded commuter wheels, plus gatorskin hards shells. The CAAD10 appears to be only available in Shimano 105 at between £1000 and £1300 depending on the retailer.

Has anyone got experience of a third party insurer settling a claim and how they base their valuation? I want a direct replacement of the equivalent bike i.e. a CAAD10 and the updgraded wheels as with my weight and the roads on my commute I need them but would welcome thoughts and experiences of others. Will the settlement be based on a replacement value or equivalent bike?

Comments

  • Can't really help as I don't really have a clue, but it's like-for-like isn't it?

    You'll need to go to a reputable bike shop and get a damage assessment (the cost of which should be paid back to you by the third party's insurers). Find a sympathetic LBS, explain your concerns and chances are they'll mark down that the equivalent bike today is the Caad 10.

    If the insurers don't look like they want to play ball then tell them you have injuries, but you'd like to get the matter sorted quickly and only want money for the Caad 10, but that perhaps you should go see your GP (perhaps you should anyway - sounds like a hefty crash). I'm sure that'll quickly have them reaching for the chequebook.
  • I was intending to take it back to the LBS I bought it from for the damage assessment. There's not much stock of the 2012 bikes around in my size and so hopefully I can play the quick settlement card as otherwise a 2013 bike is going to be more.

    I was pretty lucky in that the bike took 90% of the brunt of the crash, the frame looks like a car following a crash. The top tube and downtube have crumpled so you can see where the energy went. I'll post photos once I've got them sorted. I've got a bruised knee, elbow and wrist but think they'll be fine.

    The main thing I am annoyed about is the time it will take to deal with insurers and get the replacement - means I have to take the tube for a few weeks! New bike though, assuming I get the one I should!
  • gaddster
    gaddster Posts: 401
    When my bike got damaged it was a new for old deal. They got the claim on Wednesday, I had the money in my account by Monday. That was accidental damage granted but once they had the note from the local bike shop writing it off then it was all sorted. Now just have a long wait for the bike to be made :-(
    ARTHUR
    "Hello oh great one"
    LARRY
    "Are you talking to me or my ass?"
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    espencer86 wrote:
    I was intending to take it back to the LBS I bought it from for the damage assessment. There's not much stock of the 2012 bikes around in my size and so hopefully I can play the quick settlement card as otherwise a 2013 bike is going to be more.

    Given you wont be claiming any other damages, i wouldnt feel too guilty in subtly suggesting a 2013 CAAD10 to your bike shop as a direct replacement. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to help out when it comes to assessing the replacement cost given that you're going to buy a bike off them (and they make more profit)!! :wink::wink:
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    If your bike was say £1500 don't they just let you have one of that value of the exact model is not available?

    Is your policy new for old?
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    smidsy wrote:
    If your bike was say £1500 don't they just let you have one of that value of the exact model is not available?

    Is your policy new for old?

    He should be claiming off the 3rd party insurer - so they should have little option but a new bike. They wont risk legal bills so shouldnt be too slow to offer the bike shop's suggestion (within reason)
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    You can also claim all reasonable incidental expenses like travel to / from the bike shop, taxis etc.

    As said above, all from the third parties ins co.
    Peter
  • Thanks for all the comments.

    Off to the LBS shortly to get a report on the damage and quote for replacement. I bought it originally from there so sure they'll be sympathetic.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,853
    take photos of all damage and any injuries while they are fresh, even if it's just bruises or scratches

    even if the driver was apologetic, their insurer may be much less understanding and will try to minimise their cost

    get an incident report form from the police and complete it (keep a copy)

    get a quote for all repairs/replacement, including any clothing etc., add to this any costs you have/will incur as a result of the incident - cost of any transport home, lost time, having to drive/bus/train because you have no bike

    you should have been given the insurer's details, once you have the quote and can calculate the full amount, contact them and tell them that's the amount you want

    do not negotiate

    do not accept anything less

    do not entertain any discussion about you having any responsibility/liability for the incident

    in all communication with them be aware that they *are* trying to screw you, it's their job to do so, they are in it for their profit not for your benefit, a good result for them is reducing the claim value

    at the first sign of getting the runaround, contact one of the legal attack dogs who advertise in the back of cycling weekly, let them deal with it
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • ^^ Good advice that!

    If you're really not interested in claiming for any injuries then that's probably for the best as it's a lengthy process. Two years, nine months after I was knocked off I have received nothing beyond an interim payment of a grand despite the fact that damage to my bike alone was valued at higher than that and the third party admitted full responsibility. We're getting there now, but I've been a couple of thousand out of pocket (physio fees, replacement bike etc) since the accident.

    I really don't believe in claiming compensation when you haven't particularly suffered, but do bear in mind, most insurers are happy to bung you a grand or two in damages just to have you quickly sign off on any future claims. An old colleague of mine had a taxi door opened on him, his bike was fine, as was he but for a massive bruise on his thigh, but the taxi's insurers were quick to ask if he would take £1.5K for his inconvenience. I guess solicitor's fees must cost them a fortune.
  • noiseboyfeetman
    noiseboyfeetman Posts: 719
    edited August 2012
    smidsy wrote:
    If your bike was say £1500 don't they just let you have one of that value of the exact model is not available?

    Is your policy new for old?

    I had my bike stolen the other week and have been sourcing another bike via Sheilas Wheels who use Wheelies Bike Replacement, the bike was insured for £950 but with accessories and a different wheelset, for which I had to send proof of purchase, Wheelies offered me £1450 for a replacement.
  • galatzo
    galatzo Posts: 1,295
    sungod wrote:
    take photos of all damage and any injuries while they are fresh, even if it's just bruises or scratches

    even if the driver was apologetic, their insurer may be much less understanding and will try to minimise their cost

    get an incident report form from the police and complete it (keep a copy)

    get a quote for all repairs/replacement, including any clothing etc., add to this any costs you have/will incur as a result of the incident - cost of any transport home, lost time, having to drive/bus/train because you have no bike

    you should have been given the insurer's details, once you have the quote and can calculate the full amount, contact them and tell them that's the amount you want

    do not negotiate

    do not accept anything less

    do not entertain any discussion about you having any responsibility/liability for the incident

    in all communication with them be aware that they *are* trying to screw you, it's their job to do so, they are in it for their profit not for your benefit, a good result for them is reducing the claim value

    at the first sign of getting the runaround, contact one of the legal attack dogs who advertise in the back of cycling weekly, let them deal with it

    :roll:

    Ignore the above and deal rationally with the drivers insurance company. Insurers are not "trying to screw you" I used to work for one, I know the process and the targets and that if a consultant constantly under pays on claims then action is / was taken against them. Chances are the insurer will have a nominated supplier such as wheelies who will call you to discuss what bike you have / had and will then offer what they consider to be an equivalent model and value. You can then choose that model or another to the same value. If the suppliers valuation is not to your liking speak to the drivers insurer and advise of this and discuss it calmly. You are the agreived party and they will want to settle on best terms, It won't be to difficult to get what you want, no need for the legal attack dogs.
    Behave as Sungod recommends and it just perpetuates the dutch door action. If as you say it's just a case of you wanting a replacement bike with no personal injury then settlement should be quick and painless.
    If you take the above advice and attiude then be prepared for a long and needlessly painful time.

    Sorry Sungod I'm sure you "know my rights" :roll:
    25th August 2013 12hrs 37mins 52.3 seconds 238km 5500mtrs FYRM Never again.
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    I had a bike I built up myself from shopping around for best deals / sales.

    When I was knocked off and it was smashed up I got a letter from the bike shop saying it was all naffed up except a couple of parts that were unscathed. I then scanned and emailed this letter along with a few shopping carts of current prices for all the bits and photos of my bike and they sent me a cheque for the lot a few days later. Some of the parts cost more, including the frame, as it wasn't in a sale anymore, but I got given what it cost to replace.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,853
    Galatzo wrote:
    :roll:

    Ignore the above and deal rationally with the drivers insurance company. Insurers are not "trying to screw you" I used to work for one, I know the process and the targets and that if a consultant constantly under pays on claims then action is / was taken against them. Chances are the insurer will have a nominated supplier such as wheelies who will call you to discuss what bike you have / had and will then offer what they consider to be an equivalent model and value. You can then choose that model or another to the same value. If the suppliers valuation is not to your liking speak to the drivers insurer and advise of this and discuss it calmly. You are the agreived party and they will want to settle on best terms, It won't be to difficult to get what you want, no need for the legal attack dogs.
    Behave as Sungod recommends and it just perpetuates the dutch door action. If as you say it's just a case of you wanting a replacement bike with no personal injury then settlement should be quick and painless.
    If you take the above advice and attiude then be prepared for a long and needlessly painful time.

    Sorry Sungod I'm sure you "know my rights" :roll:

    ignore the above

    unlike you, nothing i said was irrational or insulting, it was factual, blunt and non-emotional, i said IF the insurer gives the runaround, go legal, presumably you expect people to roll over and take it

    you also post sarcastic eye-rolling icons and distort what i wrote, but then you do admit you were in the insurance industry

    i'm a witness, with others, to a cyclist getting doored in may 2011, last i saw was when the ambulance crew took him, he's still being screwed around by the driver's insurer, i know this because his lawyers are now coming back to me for another round of statements
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Thanks for all the comments including both the views of Sungod and Galatzo. Luckily I a lawyer - a litigator currently specialising in shipping insurance as it happens so I am pretty sharp to those b*stard lawyers dastardly tricks.

    I've got the bike in the LBS for a quote and will be speaking to the insurer tomorrow to get the ball started and will take their lead in how they want to play it. If they start to play hard ball then I'm prepared to fight and I will certainly not accept anything less than what I have lost. The only fight that I can envisage is the one regarding them trying to say a CAAD8 is equivalent when in reality it is the CAAD10 albeit the CAAD10 is specced better. The other thing is that it's getting really difficult to find a 58cm and if I have to wait for the 2013 the price is likely to be more... will factor that in to my quote!

    I hope that they see that I am being sensible and settle promptly at a mutually agreeable figure. I just want to be back commuting by bike rather than the tube in August. I think when you mention that there is no personal injury aspect they will be sensible about it as they are getting off pretty lightly in that respect.

    The driver said he'd email tomorrow with his insurance details but I have already spoken to them albeit briefly to notify them of the impending claim.