Do we reward failure...
Cleat Eastwood
Posts: 7,508
maybe a bit too much.
Not just Bob diamonds pay off - but things like football managers who so publicly fail when the team gets relegated but can somehow walk into another job for a higher or similar pay packet.
If you were an electrician and fecked your job up you wouldnt be surprised if not one offered you a job.
Money attracts money I guess.
Not just Bob diamonds pay off - but things like football managers who so publicly fail when the team gets relegated but can somehow walk into another job for a higher or similar pay packet.
If you were an electrician and fecked your job up you wouldnt be surprised if not one offered you a job.
Money attracts money I guess.
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
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Define failure? At its most base level failure is best defined as not having tried in the first place.
Bob Diamond did a good job just not in the public interest and I'm sure no football manager is selected for their incompetence. People try to fulfil their posts but if they don't succeed it doesn't automatically mean they've failed.0 -
Not succeeding is a definition of failure.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
what is worse Bob Diamond's pay out or AVB's ?http://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR20 -
In defence of Bob Diamond, although these dodgy LIBOR dealings may have taken place on his watch, he did build Barlcays from a pretty average UK retail and commercial bank with a bit of trading on the side to a top tier global investment bank which hasn't had top rely on government handouts to the same extent as Lloyds and RBS during the crisis. These latest revelations have tarred an otherwise brilliant career, he has been very well respected in the investment banking world for a long time. He is simply being judged here on a single aspect of what he has implemented.
I think sometimes the press picks up on some failing which causes CEOs or chairmen of multinational firms to resign, however fails to highlight the work they have done in the past. In the press you're only as good as the latest press release/bit of gossip in the market...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
It should be very simple.
If you quit it is your choice - No pay out.
If you fail and are sacked - No pay out.
That's how it works for the majority. That's how it should work for everyone.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
But when you get to the top executive level it's not about success or failure, it's about performance and there's always a release package involved.daviesee wrote:It should be very simple.
If you quit it is your choice - No pay out.
If you fail and are sacked - No pay out.
That's how it works for the majority. That's how it should work for everyone.0 -
Exactly!
Whatever payout he gets now will be a direct result of the contract negotiated when he took his erstwhile position. The reason for him leaving is immaterial.Wilier Izoard XP0 -
One rule for some another rule for most everybody else.
The haves look after themselves and kick the shit out of ordinary folk.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
francois Cervairt (sp?) he gave his life to his sport.0
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We all failed to see what they were up to - again.
will we get rewarded?my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
Jade Goody was thick as pig shit and made ££££, society loves failure maybe?? it's interesting how some applaud and clamour what was her fame and fortune but deride Diamond. Not saying was Bob was a stand up bloke obviously but more a point about how perverse the whole wealth/talent equation can be.0
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Cleat Eastwood wrote:maybe a bit too much.
Not just Bob diamonds pay off - but things like football managers who so publicly fail when the team gets relegated but can somehow walk into another job for a higher or similar pay packet.
If you were an electrician and fecked your job up you wouldnt be surprised if not one offered you a job.
Money attracts money I guess.
Success is often independent of the manager (and how do we define 'success' anyway?) -> This is why CEOs such as Bob Diamond have nice pay-off clauses in their contracts.
Eg. The market's fecked -> That's not Bob's fault but he might still be blamed for poor performance
Eg. Someone (or a group) further down in the company decided to go rogue and start being naughty? That's not Bob's fault... but he still gets the blame.
Therefore the big pay-off is a necessary amount of compensation for the risks inherent in a CEO's job. Otherwise no one would be silly enough to take such a risky job!0 -
Also, am I right in saying that Barclays came forward with this? They have been extremely transparent with the gov't at all stages. Regarding the aggressive tax avoidance scheme - HRMC didn't 'happen to stumble upon it' they TOLD hmrc and were fully compliant with the gov't investigation.
Im sorry, but Barcalys are leading the way with a cleaner, more transparent manner of banking. Regarding tax avoidance, if its legal, wouldn't anyone? Selfishly speaking, who gives 2 F's about a 'duty of care to the taxpayer'. They only owe it to their shareholders (which is why the recent scandal is more of a F-up, as the price has lost 25-30%).
As someone said about Bob Jr having an excellent career, I think that man is right. He didn't cover this up. that was Del Missier, and he should be shot. As for the bloody government encouraging it.....holy crap I could go on about the former government screwing everything up, but when the recession is on, making it cheaper to borrow sure as hell ain't gonna deepen the debt bubble.....oh...wait.
It is beggars belief. THIS is why we need lords, to stop the 'elected' lot ruining everything with their short termish egotistical wanna be history making, country ruining policies.
Why can't somone enact a policy thinking farther ahead than the next indoor cigarette in the HoP bar?0 -
previous Govt. messing it up? wasn't it Cameron/Osbourne at the same time wanted less or lighter rules on the banks?
and how was the P G to withstand a global downturn?0 -
How do you define performance without it involving success or failure?BillyMansell wrote:
But when you get to the top executive level it's not about success or failure, it's about performance and there's always a release package involved.daviesee wrote:It should be very simple.
If you quit it is your choice - No pay out.
If you fail and are sacked - No pay out.
That's how it works for the majority. That's how it should work for everyone.
Smells like bullish!t to me.
And simply put, anyone sorting out the contracts that includes a release package for the new starts should be released.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
I am a failure and I claim my £5.Two wheels good,four wheels bad0
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coriordan wrote:Also, am I right in saying that Barclays came forward with this? They have been extremely transparent with the gov't at all stages. Regarding the aggressive tax avoidance scheme - HRMC didn't 'happen to stumble upon it' they TOLD hmrc and were fully compliant with the gov't investigation.
Im sorry, but Barcalys are leading the way with a cleaner, more transparent manner of banking. Regarding tax avoidance, if its legal, wouldn't anyone? Selfishly speaking, who gives 2 F's about a 'duty of care to the taxpayer'. They only owe it to their shareholders (which is why the recent scandal is more of a F-up, as the price has lost 25-30%).
Yes banks are your friends
My GF works for Barclays, tried the whole "Barclays were the only bank to put money aside before the PPI challenge went through the courts" etc when that was all kicking off. Yes because they saw they weren't going to win that one? I think it's the same case here, know they're going to get rumbled for it and sing like the proverbial canary, making themselves look good for being so open about it in the process? "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
in lots of dodgy places people are warned of the three card trick, or variations of it, in Banking, its celebrated and we are told how important these people are for our well being
pure tosh--- as for financial products...... financial instruments...... all bulls hit, --- smoke and mirrors--- if ever there was an 'industry' that produces nothing, yet is sacrosanct , its rich boys playpen---
you only have to ask who benefits from all this ----0 -
dylanfernley wrote:in lots of dodgy places people are warned of the three card trick, or variations of it, in Banking, its celebrated and we are told how important these people are for our well being
pure tosh--- as for financial products...... financial instruments...... all bulls hit, --- smoke and mirrors--- if ever there was an 'industry' that produces nothing, yet is sacrosanct , its rich boys playpen---
you only have to ask who benefits from all this ----
I don't think the above statement could be more wrong!
Debt is an essential instrument in a modern economy; how is the economy supposed to grow if you can't borrow to fund expansion?
I'd like to see you try and live your life without banks. Why don't you cut up your credit and debit cards.. stop paying your mortgage and other financing commitments... stuff all your savings into your mattress etc.0 -
think you are missing my point---- you assume there are no other ways of organising society, only what is in front of you and what you uncritically beleive-- maybe thats a bit harsh, but i have not said that banks are unnecessary, its the way that they are structured and for whom that is wrong.
btw, i rent my 'home', do not have a debt, am out of work at the mo, work in construction,very little work around, plenty of things need fixing but left to the 'market' ---- well that's another thread0 -
This thread contains lots of comments suggesting Diamond was good at this job. He "suspected" that other banks were fixing LIBOR, but did nothing to establish if it was going on in Barclays. That makes him indolent or incompetent. Perhaps he's both. It now turns out that he is more-or-less just another spiv who lost the trust of the regulators some time ago. Tricky to square this one with the idea of him being respected (see above). And when he was in charge of the US bit of BARCAP, he went cap-in-hand big time to the US Treasury.
The banks have cost us all dearly, and no-one is prepared to anything about it.0 -
That makes him indolent or incompetent.
Or someone approaching a somewhat risky situation in an amoral but commercially sound way? I'd be very surprised if Bob didn't know what was going on, though we'll never hear otherwise; if it was happening at Barclays, everyone else was also getting away with it (indeed, there appeared to be tacit consent from the authorities) and it delivered financial upside I wouldn't expect a capable manager to attack the practice with crusading zeal.
It's fairly clear that Diamond didn't get to where he was by simple schtick & an unbelievably fortuitous series of Three Stooges style slaps & pokes. To suggest he was some manner of clutz who got lucky is more than a little political.0 -
these old boy networks are very practised at cover and run, and then if all else fails play the dumb card, all safe in the knowledge of fiscal and other rewards, dust settles and another berth is found, what a way to run things---- crony capitalism thats for undeveloped countries surely---- no its what the big fish do, yet most of the time they get away with it, now and then a few have to take a hit for the rest, but its only an ego one, no worries about signing on and looking for rented accomodation .........0
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^1 we would all be better off if this happened.Debt is a curse.Whats the solution? Just pedal faster you baby.
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Winter Alan Top Cross
All rounder Spec. Allez.0 -
DesB3rd wrote:Or someone approaching a somewhat risky situation in an amoral but commercially sound way? I'd be very surprised if Bob didn't know what was going on, though we'll never hear otherwise; if it was happening at Barclays, everyone else was also getting away with it (indeed, there appeared to be tacit consent from the authorities) and it delivered financial upside I wouldn't expect a capable manager to attack the practice with crusading zeal.
I'd expect them -capable or otherwise- to be sacked for misconduct and prosecuted. I rather hoped that criminality was not subject to subjective assessment according to the wealth and influence of the perpetrators. As HSBC has been casually laundering drug money for some time, they are in a nasty position. But they've apologised. So that's all right then.0
