Fratello v Italia... decisions, decisions...

optimisticbiker
optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
edited August 2012 in Commuting chat
Condor Fratello (steel) v Condor Italia (alloy).

So test rode both this evening and liked both of them. Identical bikes, 105GS + Aksium wheels. Was good to be able to ride them back to back with proper SPD pedals, not some nasty plastic jobs.

Fratello was slightly heavier and less stiff - you could feel it when getting the power down, didn't feel 'urgent'. But really soaked up the vibration from the road, even the cobbled pedestrian ramps round the backstreets in the Guildford Road/Southampton Row area felt muted. Italia was lively and more skittish, fun to ride but you felt every bump; was a boneshaker over those cobbled bits.

Like the styling of the Italia with the curved top bar, but the Fratello in orange is uber cool.

Heart says either of them... but likely the Fratello as primary need is a lightweight commuter with pannier/touring capability. Head says, £1600 (to my spec with better wheels) is a lot of money and there are many other bikes available for that money.

Decisions, decisions...
Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
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Comments

  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    If you have a weekend ride its a no brainer surely? Alternatively go with the one with the nicer paint job, do like the Fratello orange. [/tart]
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    has to be the Fratello
    Dolan Mythos
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    why not get something in between and get the Accaccio...

    or even, the Super Accaccio.

    drool
    Dolan Mythos
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    clarkey cat wrote:
    why not get something in between and get the Accaccio...

    or even, the Super Accaccio.

    drool

    err why? only 100g lighter, no mudguard/rack mounts and £200 more. rather spend that on some better wheels, will have a more noticable effect than the 100g weight saving....
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • jeepie
    jeepie Posts: 497
    I recommended my father in law get a Fratello, approx 3 years ago. I couldn't afford one! But he's absolutely loved his.... done thousands of miles all year round and he's not even had to tweak a gear cable. It's a practical fun bike! ... He's also got this lovely champagne paint job for his Fratello - it looks wonderful and I'm exceedingly envious. Another vote for the Fratello.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    I had to decide between the aluminium/carbon Agio and the Fratello (don't know whether the models have changed since). At the time it was my only bike and the Agio was the right bike to go for, but now I have dedicated bikes for racing, TT, cross etc, the Agio has become mainly my commuting bike, and I wish I'd gone with steel.
    So, if it's your only bike, not sure, but if you have a separate weekend bike, go for the Fratello...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    Very pleased with my Fratello choice.

    A really good, comfortable all rounder. Use it everyday for commute and did a long tour down the US East Coast, which it was perfect for.

    It's not as well made/finished as it should be for the price. The seat tube is the wrong size, so ended up getting an odd sized post and the cable adjusters were like cardboard and broke within weeks!
    exercise.png
  • English John
    English John Posts: 36
    Others to consider, Enigma , Thorn Audax, Hewitt.

    I decided on a Fratello , and I am very happy. I would recommend it to anyone.
    Comfort, mudguard clearance, light tour capability, low gears to my spec, and a fit were my criteria.

    My brother wanted a do it all bike , and he went for a Casati "vinci ?" Italian, Alu with rear carbon stays, eyelets. A lovely bike that has done 1000's of miles.

    You are in the Woodrup custom build steel territory

    Everyone has a slightly different solution

    Remember, it is fun, buying a new bike !!
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    +1 for Hewitt.

    I have this and I really love it.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... tern-39909

    I used to have a Fratello but like the fact these are a lot less common in London.
    Dolan Mythos
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    No surprise that my vote is for the Fratello.

    If you are considering other brands then - and at the risk of banging my drum a little too loudly here - have you not considered the Genesis Equilibrium? There is a reason why we owners love them. The 2013 colours should be out soon and with a budget of £1600 you could build yourself a much higher specked bike than anything Condor could do for you.
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    Obviously a custom built equilibrium.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    If you were to consider an Equilibrium, contact Maurice here - http://www.buildityourway.co.uk/roadbike.php

    He was very helpful and competitive when I was considering my last bike.
    I think the Equilibrium is in the bike builder so you can see your virtual bike cost.

    I ended up going for the Fratello as the dealer was local but if I had been buying from phone/internet I probably would have went for the Equilibrium. The decision was hard and close.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    daviesee wrote:
    If you were to consider an Equilibrium, contact Maurice here - http://www.buildityourway.co.uk/roadbike.php

    He was very helpful and competitive when I was considering my last bike.
    I think the Equilibrium is in the bike builder so you can see your virtual bike cost.

    Actually don't. It was De Ver I went through when I had my Equilibrium built and, very friendly though all of them were, their customer service was shocking. Perhaps it's because they are used to selling 5 grand, Italian super bikes, I don't know, but it took them forever (and a lot of nagging from me) to sort out my respray. The parts I'd ordered months before the frame finally returned had been forgotten about so that I had to then order them myself elsewhere (a simple job even though I was told there were no 3T Ergonova bars left to be found anywhere in the country). The seat clamp that came with the frame was lost and I was then charged for a new one. I was charged for spacers I did not ask for as I wanted the steerer cutting down, and then when I did have it cut down, at least one of those spacers went missing. The gear indexing first time I collected the bike was all over the place. And finally, their service charges were far higher even than Condor in Central London. Like I say, the people in the shop are lovely and clearly have a passion for cycling, but as a customer, I've been put off having anything to do with them for life.

    If I was building a custome Equilibrium again, I'd buy all the bits online and then hire one of the many skilled amateur mechanics here to build it up for me.
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    I'd buy all the bits online and then hire one of the many skilled amateur mechanics here to build it up for me.

    Or just save your money and build it yourself!
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    Actually don't. It was De Ver I went through when I had my Equilibrium built and, very friendly though all of them were, their customer service was shocking.
    Ah well. Looks like I unknowingly made the correct decision.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    styxd wrote:
    I'd buy all the bits online and then hire one of the many skilled amateur mechanics here to build it up for me.

    Or just save your money and build it yourself!
    Well that was also in the back of my mind... buy the frameset and source everything else... and it would be definitely cheaper than buying it from Condor.

    I would prefer to buy from the shop rather than online... and Condor are only 532m according to my Garmin from the office :) and I like the shop. But obviously their prices on components include good margins to cover the assembly time.

    I might see what they would charge to assemble it if I supplied the components.
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    clarkey cat wrote:
    +1 for Hewitt.

    I have this and I really love it.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... tern-39909

    I used to have a Fratello but like the fact these are a lot less common in London.
    It looks good.. although i'm not convinced about less common... I've only ever seen one Condor bike on my commute and that wasnt a Fratello, but there are 2 Hewitts in the bike park at work (not my company tho, other tenants) and at least two others are chained to lamp-posts outside on Farringdon Road or Cow Cross St. (yes I am that sad I notice these things!)

    Also that particular model weighs in at over 3kg on frame and fork against the Fratello's 1.6kg...
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    No surprise that my vote is for the Fratello.

    If you are considering other brands then - and at the risk of banging my drum a little too loudly here - have you not considered the Genesis Equilibrium? There is a reason why we owners love them. The 2013 colours should be out soon and with a budget of £1600 you could build yourself a much higher specked bike than anything Condor could do for you.
    I looked at the Equilibrium in Evans but they only had big sizes and couldnt say when they were getting any more in, so i couldn't test ride it. Also I don't think it has rack mounts. However I could get it on a the C2W scheme so it does have some interest financially...

    Also its common... there are 3 in the bike park at work :lol:
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    No surprise that my vote is for the Fratello.

    If you are considering other brands then - and at the risk of banging my drum a little too loudly here - have you not considered the Genesis Equilibrium? There is a reason why we owners love them. The 2013 colours should be out soon and with a budget of £1600 you could build yourself a much higher specked bike than anything Condor could do for you.
    I looked at the Equilibrium in Evans but they only had big sizes and couldnt say when they were getting any more in, so i couldn't test ride it. Also I don't think it has rack mounts. However I could get it on a the C2W scheme so it does have some interest financially...

    Also its common... there are 3 in the bike park at work :lol:

    Yeah, common's not good, but like I say, the 2013 models will be out soon.

    I believe there is a way around the rack mount thing, but you'd have to ask the other lads about that.

    If you want a try of a 56cm with only a 100mm stem on it then you're welcome to have a go of mine. I work near Covent Garden so not that far from you.
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    No surprise that my vote is for the Fratello.

    If you are considering other brands then - and at the risk of banging my drum a little too loudly here - have you not considered the Genesis Equilibrium? There is a reason why we owners love them. The 2013 colours should be out soon and with a budget of £1600 you could build yourself a much higher specked bike than anything Condor could do for you.
    I looked at the Equilibrium in Evans but they only had big sizes and couldnt say when they were getting any more in, so i couldn't test ride it. Also I don't think it has rack mounts. However I could get it on a the C2W scheme so it does have some interest financially...

    Also its common... there are 3 in the bike park at work :lol:

    Yeah, common's not good, but like I say, the 2013 models will be out soon.

    I believe there is a way around the rack mount thing, but you'd have to ask the other lads about that.

    If you want a try of a 56cm with only a 100mm stem on it then you're welcome to have a go of mine. I work near Covent Garden so not that far from you.
    Thanks for the offer but I couldn't get my leg over a 56 :lol:... short-ass like me needs a 52... short legs, long arms apparently...
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • English John
    English John Posts: 36
    So have you decided?
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Thanks for the offer but I couldn't get my leg over a 56 :lol:... short-ass like me needs a 52... short legs, long arms apparently...
    How tall are you, short ass?
    Only ask because I'm tempted by a Tempo (Fratello frame but for SS/fixed) as a commuting steed and there's a 55 up for sale. I'm 5'10".
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    I want a Tempo.

    Am selling my Pearson on the basis I can buy one once I've bought the missus a house with a garage.
    Dolan Mythos
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    dhope wrote:
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Thanks for the offer but I couldn't get my leg over a 56 :lol:... short-ass like me needs a 52... short legs, long arms apparently...
    How tall are you, short ass?
    Only ask because I'm tempted by a Tempo (Fratello frame but for SS/fixed) as a commuting steed and there's a 55 up for sale. I'm 5'10".

    A Condor 55 would be spot on for an average 5' 10.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    dhope wrote:
    How tall are you, short ass?
    Only ask because I'm tempted by a Tempo (Fratello frame but for SS/fixed) as a commuting steed and there's a 55 up for sale. I'm 5'10".
    I am 5' 10" and got a 54cm Fratello.
    I think a 55cm would work but you would need a short stem & have the seat lower (relatively).
    I would need a substantial discount but a bargain would be a bargain.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    daviesee wrote:
    dhope wrote:
    How tall are you, short ass?
    Only ask because I'm tempted by a Tempo (Fratello frame but for SS/fixed) as a commuting steed and there's a 55 up for sale. I'm 5'10".
    I am 5' 10" and got a 54cm Fratello.
    I think a 55cm would work but you would need a short stem & have the seat lower (relatively).
    I would need a substantial discount but a bargain would be a bargain.

    Condor don't do off-the-peg 54s do they? Did you go custom? I may be wrong, but I think their 55 is actually slightly under.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    Condor don't do off-the-peg 54s do they? Did you go custom? I may be wrong, but I think their 55 is actually slightly under.
    Dammit! See what happens when I type from memory. :wink:
    Okay, the Fratello is a touch larger than my Colnago Master which is 54cm (I think. Maybe I should check that too :wink: )
    Based on this info, I would say that the 55cm would fit someone at 5'10" just fine. :P
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    English John wrote:
    So have you decided?
    I am almost completely sold on the Fratello - going to do another test ride and take it up to Regnts Park for a bi of a thrashing....:lol:
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    dhope wrote:
    OptimisticBiker wrote:
    Thanks for the offer but I couldn't get my leg over a 56 :lol:... short-ass like me needs a 52... short legs, long arms apparently...
    How tall are you, short ass?
    Only ask because I'm tempted by a Tempo (Fratello frame but for SS/fixed) as a commuting steed and there's a 55 up for sale. I'm 5'10".
    55 is too big for my 5' 7".... I test rode the Italia in a 55, with the seat lowered almost as far as it would go.. I could only ride it because the curved top bar meant i could get off the saddle without crippling myself :lol: I couldn't do that on the Fratello! I test rode the latter in a 49, but a 52 is a better size for me,the 49 was marginally too short a reach (short legs, long arms - high ape index apparently :( ).
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:
  • optimisticbiker
    optimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    So after a few more test rides of other bikes and humming and haaa-ing about what I really liked I finally made up my mind on the Fratello and went and got the bike fit done and have gone for the 49cm frame with a longer stem. In the end it felt better. Also made a few changes to the spec, gone for the Tiagra 10speed compact + 12-30 cassette, Open Pro rims on 105 hubs and the Deda finishing kit all in black with black bar tape on the Orange frame and a B17 saddle, M520 pedals and SKS mudguards (again all in black). Should be ready within 4 weeks :)
    Invacare Spectra Plus electric wheelchair, max speed 4mph :cry:

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