Cannock tonight, at least 8 people with no helmets

Rushmore

umchpetrol wrote:

styxd wrote:

Anyone who doesn't wear a helmet while mountain biking is an idiot.

If you are riding in your comfort zone and are confident in your abilities then its not necessary.

Thats good mentality; I'll remember to apply this level of thinking next time I go to the shops 5 minutes from my house on a nice, quiet 30mph limit and not bother to put my seatbelt on.

You drive 5 mins to the shops?!

supersonic

The argument will go on for ever. There are plenty of websites out there that offer info and stats. Whether I personally wear a helmet is irrelevant - I actually do - the main part of this discussion (or at least started) is judging others for making their own decisions ie not wearing a helmet. Maybe some of those people are uninformed, maybe not - we don't know, and I think calling them idiots and retards is a bit strong.

styxd

I'll remember to apply this level of thinking next time I go to the shops 5 minutes from my house on a nice, quiet 30mph limit and not bother to put my seatbelt on

Great stuff, go for it, Im sure you'll be fine. You'll be breaking the law though!

Thankfully, wearing a helmet whilst riding a bike isnt law (although you wouldnt think so judging by some of the idiotic comments on this thread)

I wear a helmet when I ride my bike (most of the time)

I have a brain though, and I can assess the risks involved. If Im out riding downhill at a high speeds then I'll definitely wear one.

If I pootle to the shops on my bmx then I wont do.

Good Old Bakes

TwellySmat wrote:

I live in Portsmouth, so I am much more likely to have my head injured when walking to the post office than when I am riding my bike round the woods. I do not wear a helmet to walk to the post office... or a stab vest. Would you refuse to treat me OP?

I live in Sheffield and therefore wear a helmet and stab vest for my weekly shop at Sainsburys, while packing considerable heat. However, once in the woods, I ride my bike completely naked, save for a small Elastoplas covering a mole on my left shoulder. Oh the freedom it brings....

umchpetrol

Rushmore wrote:

umchpetrol wrote:

styxd wrote:

Anyone who doesn't wear a helmet while mountain biking is an idiot.

If you are riding in your comfort zone and are confident in your abilities then its not necessary.

Thats good mentality; I'll remember to apply this level of thinking next time I go to the shops 5 minutes from my house on a nice, quiet 30mph limit and not bother to put my seatbelt on.

You drive 5 mins to the shops?!

Depends what I'm buying.

mrmonkfinger

the car is invaluable for those unscheduled late night washing machine shopping sprees


erm.

I wear a helmet. I like my brain the way it is, probably worth a few pounds to make sure it stays that way.

Rushmore

umchpetrol wrote:

Rushmore wrote:

umchpetrol wrote:

styxd wrote:

Anyone who doesn't wear a helmet while mountain biking is an idiot.

If you are riding in your comfort zone and are confident in your abilities then its not necessary.

Thats good mentality; I'll remember to apply this level of thinking next time I go to the shops 5 minutes from my house on a nice, quiet 30mph limit and not bother to put my seatbelt on.

You drive 5 mins to the shops?!

Depends what I'm buying.

Crack and hookers?

danlightbulb

styxd wrote:

I'll remember to apply this level of thinking next time I go to the shops 5 minutes from my house on a nice, quiet 30mph limit and not bother to put my seatbelt on

Great stuff, go for it, Im sure you'll be fine. You'll be breaking the law though!

Thankfully, wearing a helmet whilst riding a bike isnt law (although you wouldnt think so judging by some of the idiotic comments on this thread)

I wear a helmet when I ride my bike (most of the time)

I have a brain though, and I can assess the risks involved. If Im out riding downhill at a high speeds then I'll definitely wear one.

If I pootle to the shops on my bmx then I wont do.

Law isn't everything though is it. Many years ago, rear seatbelts weren't law. All of a sudden they become law but the risk hasn't changed has it. None of us here want to see people with avoidable injuries that's all it is. It applies not just to MTB but to any sport and to anything in life for that matter. Do you wear safety boots on a construction site? Do you wear a life jacket if doing canooing (even though you can swim).

Glad to hear that you do in fact wear a helmet whilst trail riding, and therefore you were just playing devils advocate earlier.

I would never suggest that people who are injured don't get treated for it, and the OP was just voicing his frustration at the sight of several people putting themselves at unnecessary risk. This actually shows that he actually cares for these people and has compassion for them as he is frustrated at their behaviour for their own safety.

supersonic

How many people wear full body armour though? The risks to other parts of the body, especially the collar bone, wrists and neck, are as high.

danlightbulb

supersonic wrote:

How many people wear full body armour though? The risks to other parts of the body, especially the collar bone, wrists and neck, are as high.

Agreed. And I recently learned the hard way that I could do with wearing elbow and knee pads. However I still see the head (and particularly the skull) as the most critical area of the body. Yeah you may have broken arms or ribs, but whilst still conscious at least you can get help. Unconscious (or significant head damage) and chances just went significantly down imo.

TheEnglishman

appy wrote:

Why? Im a trauma medic and if i find you lying in a heap with your head caved in do you think i should stop and help? Do you think people who ride with no helmet deserve help when they dont take some measures to help themselves? Seriously ..retards

Rant over.......

Nope - 0/10.

Judging people on your standards is just plain wrong. I think the problem these days is that people are forgetting just what risk is. Kids aren't allowed to climb trees, walk home from school , etc etc and now you're proposing everyone should wear a helmet when out on a bike. I mean, why stop there? Why not wrist braces, body armor, one of those inflatable bag things that cocoons you in a big bit of bubble wrap when you come off? How about armored boots? A GPS tracker that calls 999 the second you come off? Perhaps it should be law to inform the emergency services your EXACT route every time you leave the house? With a fixed penalty if you deviate from it by more than 5 meters!


:roll:

bails87

ARRRGGHGHHHH!!

The woman in this photo is obviously now dead. She's riding a bike without a helmet, which is the most dangerous activity known to humankind. No-one who's ridden a bike without a helmet has ever survived to report on how it went.

Same goes for this dutch family
:roll:

There are plenty of green trails and tame fireroads at Cannock, we don't know where they were.

Roostoids

I ride a mile to work every day, (and another mile home again) on a 30mph road. I don't wear a helmet for this.

I ride in the woods and trail centres and ALWAYS wear a helmet.

Today I rode out of some woods with a helmet on, and had to go up a f**kin steep lane to get to the next bit of woods so, because it was very hot today, I took my helmet off for the duration of the lane.


I get what the OP is saying; that it's frustrating if people hurt themselves when they're not taking obvious precautions, however that's the point of a free world. Just as it's their right not to wear protective gear, it's your right to point and laugh when they have a Tom and Jerry lump on their head because they fell on their bonce (but you'd still help, because you're a nice guy, right!?)

cooldad

bails87 wrote:

ARRRGGHGHHHH!!

I assume that ARRRGGHGHHHH!! is for the scary face on the little girl.

stubs

I am all in favour of people doing lots of dangerous things without safety gear. After all you never know when you might need an organ donor.

DCR00

I suspect that my life insurance wouldn't pay out if I managed to kill myself on my bike nd I wasn't wearing a helmet. That would mean my Wife and Son would lose out, in more ways than one.

Riding a bike is inherently dangerous, no matter how good you are/think you are at riding a bike. It's your choice whether to wear a helmet or not, but if you have people who rely on you, then you should be responsible and minimise the risk of serious injury, which means you wear a helmet.

bails87

DCR00 wrote:

Riding a bike is inherently dangerous.

No. It isn't.

Mountain biking at speed on twisty trails, perhaps, but not riding a bike.

Do you wear a neck brace and full face helmet whenever you're on a bike, or for that matter, walking up or down stairs?

cooldad

DCR00 wrote:

I suspect that my life insurance wouldn't pay out if I managed to kill myself on my bike nd I wasn't wearing a helmet. That would mean my Wife and Son would lose out, in more ways than one.

I strongly suspect that you are really wrong.
In more ways than one.

DCR00

bails87 wrote:

DCR00 wrote:

Riding a bike is inherently dangerous.

No. It isn't.

Mountain biking at speed on twisty trails, perhaps, but not riding a bike.

Do you wear a neck brace and full face helmet whenever you're on a bike, or for that matter, walking up or down stairs?

Do u read MBR ? There re pics every month of people who didn't mean to hurt themselves, but have f@cked themselves up

Of course not, but the likelihood of me suffering serious injury from walking down the stairs is far lower than serious injury coming from a fall from a bike

If you are riding a bike there is a chance you could come off, for many different reasons, and you could be seriously injured if you hit our head. Wearing a helmet reduces that risk. Likelihood is lower if just riding along a flat trail, but risk is still there.

Walking along he same trail the risk of you falling at the same velocity and landing on your head/face is far lower. Not 100 percent, but low enough that we don't walk about with helmets on.

DCR00

cooldad wrote:

DCR00 wrote:

I suspect that my life insurance wouldn't pay out if I managed to kill myself on my bike nd I wasn't wearing a helmet. That would mean my Wife and Son would lose out, in more ways than one.

I strongly suspect that you are really wrong.
In more ways than one.

Not taking the chance though

bails87

DCR: Per mile travelled, cycling is often shown to be safer than walking.
And if cycling is so dangerous and you're that concerned then why do it at all? Do you wear a helmet walking down stairs? When you're on a stepladder? Crossing the road?

I don't know if we like to try and convince ourselves that everything we do is super-gnar, but pottering along a traffic free route at a few mph is very, very, very safe.

cooldad

Unless of course the bears, wolves and homicidal maniacs get you.

bails87

cooldad wrote:

Unless of course the bears, wolves and homicidal maniacs get you.

I think any 'bears' in the woods around here would be interested in a different kind of helmet

styxd

Glad to hear that you do in fact wear a helmet whilst trail riding, and therefore you were just playing devils advocate earlier.

Im not playing devils advocate

I am all in favour of people doing lots of dangerous things without safety gear. After all you never know when you might need an organ donor.

Riding a bike isnt necessarily dangerous (although judging by the stupidity of your comment then it may well be whenever you ride one)

You assess the risks and make a decision. If you're a beginner and are riding challenging terrain then it would be sensible to wear one. If you're an experienced cyclist and are riding easy going terrain, then you may not feel the need to wear one.

MountainMonster

DCR00 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

DCR00 wrote:

Riding a bike is inherently dangerous.

No. It isn't.

Mountain biking at speed on twisty trails, perhaps, but not riding a bike.

Do you wear a neck brace and full face helmet whenever you're on a bike, or for that matter, walking up or down stairs?

Do u read MBR ? There re pics every month of people who didn't mean to hurt themselves, but have f@cked themselves up

Of course not, but the likelihood of me suffering serious injury from walking down the stairs is far lower than serious injury coming from a fall from a bike

If you are riding a bike there is a chance you could come off, for many different reasons, and you could be seriously injured if you hit our head. Wearing a helmet reduces that risk. Likelihood is lower if just riding along a flat trail, but risk is still there.

Walking along he same trail the risk of you falling at the same velocity and landing on your head/face is far lower. Not 100 percent, but low enough that we don't walk about with helmets on.

Utter bollocks, i've had some pretty nasty crashes, and none of them have been very bad or resulted in serious damage. However, I have fallen down the stairs on multiple occasions, including snapping a few bones and knocking myself unconcious for 6 hours. It can happen anywhere, anytime. Do you wear a helmet when cycling to the shop? I can't remember the exact figures, but riding in an urban area is about 10x more dangerous according to statistics, than mountain biking.

EH_Rob

Doing things where PPE must be worn is very safe - as long as you follow the correct procedures and take steps to minimise risk. If it wasn't safe nobody would be allowed to do it. Just because you follow the correct procedures does not mean you shouldn't wear it though - you still have to. All these things that are perceived to be dangerous - deep sea diving, mining, skydiving etc. are not without risk, but the risks are managed.

Wearing PPE (including helmets, armour etc) whilst cycling isn't law, unlike the above, it's personal choice.

From an H&S point of view, the risks of riding along a quiet, traffic free route at a few miles an hour is low risk. Hazards such as other road users, increased speed, difficult terrain are not present or are low. Although the risk that you can still crash your bike is still there, it is a low risk. Because the speed is low, if you do crash, the outcome is likely to be less severe than at higher speed. Riding a bike slowly and in a quiet area is a valid mechanism of hazard control.

As you increase things like volume of traffic and terrain severity, the number of hazards increases. This increases the risk. Combine this with increased speed, and the number of hazards increases significantly, as might their severity. The perception is that at some point the hazard volume and severity increases to such a point that the level of risk becomes unacceptable, and further measures are required, for instance PPE, or not riding at all (such as on the motorway or over a cliff).

The difficulty comes when actually trying to quantify the risk to answer the question "should I be wearing a helmet or not?". You can get around this by always wearing one when riding a bike, which is a perfectly reasonable argument. It's a good habit. Equally, "it's a low risk activity, therefore I don't need one" is also valid. Where to draw the line is a totally subjective thing, and I guess the root of this debate.

Add to this the uncertainty of how many lives helmets actually save, and how much protection they offer in different situations and you have a very complex argument, which neither I, or anyone else, can answer. No matter what they say!

And regarding H&S statistics, you can make them say whatever you want them to and they never tell the whole story, so they're definitely to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Abra

This guys doing it right...As for the girls there almost certainly going to drown! :roll:

stubs

styxd wrote:

Im not playing devils advocate

I am all in favour of people doing lots of dangerous things without safety gear. After all you never know when you might need an organ donor.

Riding a bike isnt necessarily dangerous (although judging by the stupidity of your comment then it may well be whenever you ride one)

Wow you really are getting your lycra in a twist. Calm down fella it was a joke to try and lighten up the pomposity in this thread. If you dont like people going out riding without a lid its there choice, get over it and start worrying about something that will change the world. Me I think they are daft not wearing a lid but I would never start pontificating and getting all superior and pompous about it.

jonomc4

Sometimes I wear a bike helmet sometimes I don't.

If I am going out for a pootle along the street on a nice warm day - I don't wear one. If I am off for a balls out weekend ride I always wear one. Really, why do so many people here assume to tell me and others what the risks are - do you assume that you are smarter than me? There is a right time and place for everything and just because you are on a bike does not mean you automatically have to wear a helmet - you measure the risk and decide and all people have different risk levels they are willing to accept.

I have had concussion 3 times in my life. Twice playing rugby and once falling down stairs. Never on a bike. By this evidence the people saying I should always wear a helmet on a bike are also saying I should wear one when playing rugby and when walking down stairs.

Rushmore

i'm suprised this thread hasn't been closed already...

BORED NOW!