2011 Athena "Powershift" Ergo levers.

BikingBernie

Hi there,

Does anyone know what "front derailleur micro-adjustment possibility" actually means with regards 2011 Athena (and Centaur / Veloce) "Powershift" Ergo levers?

Does it mean that they use an essentially non-indexed micro-ratchet system for the front changer as Ergo levers - at least the upper range ones - always have done?

Alternatively, does this mean that the left hand lever has a 3-position index system system with the option of trimming the cage after the change has been made, as Shimano changers always have done? If this is the case does the indexing have three positions (theoretically allowing the use of a triple chainset) or just two?

Thanks!

skyblue337

I have some on a bike that is out of commission at the moment but I'm pretty sure there are at least 3 clicks giving 4 positions in total. The documentation mentions being able to use with a triple as well

BikingBernie

skyblue337 wrote:

I have some on a bike that is out of commission at the moment but I'm pretty sure there are at least 3 clicks giving 4 positions in total. The documentation mentions being able to use with a triple as well

Thanks for that. From what you say Powershift levers are indexed like Shimano, rather than using a micro ratchet, with 2 trim positions for each chainwheel of a double chainwheel set up.

From what I understand the original left hand Ergo lever had 12 'clicks' and the latest micro ratchet 'Ultrashift' levers have 6.

BikingBernie

P.s. with regards to the compatability of Powershift levers with a triple set up, I have found the following quote from someone at Campagnolo:

Power shift commands are not compatible with [the 2010 Comp Triple rear derailleur]. They can be used only with 2011 rear derailleurs. Instead you are allowed to use 2010 10s Ultra-Shift commands (Veloce or Centaur) and previous versions, which are double/triple compatible. We will correct the technical note present in our catalogue as soon as possible. Thank you.

Cordiali Saluti/ Best Regards
Federico Fiori

http://www.campyonly.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... f=1&t=2188

This incompatability is because of the altered lever arms of the 2011 rear gears and shifters which means that a 'Comp' triple rear derailleur (which uses the older actuation angle) would not move the correct distance to keep the indexing in-line.

Despite the above, it could well be that the left hand lever would work fine with a triple set up and I have read that, as the Veloce rear derailleur still comes in a medium cage version, a ten speed 'triple' set up is possible using 2011 parts, as long as a 13-29 cassette is not used as this requires a long cage rear derailleur. (And the 'Comp', which is the only long cage rear derailleur that is still available, needs 2010 or earlier levers to keep the indexing in-line, as is noted above).

Apparently, a 10 speed rear derailleur can be made to work with 2011 shifters with a bit of modification to the way the cable attaches to the rear gear see:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/compon ... 60601.html

I am still searching for the definitive answer as to how the left shifter works though!

skyblue337

I wonder if the modified geometry of the 2011 10 speed rear derailleurs (now the same as the 11 speed ones) would allow the use of the medium cage Veloce with the Athena Powershift levers (perhaps requiring 11 speed jockey wheels) in an 11 speed triple setup? I'm sure I read of somebody using a 2011 10 speed RD with 2011 11sp levers with no issues but I cannot find the thread

BikingBernie

skyblue337 wrote:

I wonder if the modified geometry of the 2011 10 speed rear derailleurs (now the same as the 11 speed ones) would allow the use of the medium cage Veloce with the Athena Powershift levers (perhaps requiring 11 speed jockey wheels) in an 11 speed triple setup? I'm sure I read of somebody using a 2011 10 speed RD with 2011 11sp levers with no issues but I cannot find the thread

Good point. From what I have read that should work if 11 speed jockey wheels are used. Only restriction would be that a wide-range cassette could not be used (such as a 13-29), which might lessen the advantage of having a triple in the first place.

I'm still not sure if 'Powershift' levers are 'indexed with trim function' or use a multi-position micro ratchet!

In a way using a Shimano style set up on the lower end groups for the front changer would make some sense as these are quite likely to be used by the more casual cyclist, who has quite possibly used Shimano in the past. On the other hand the sort of rider who would shell out for Record or Chorus is probably a bit of a purist who appreciates the more adaptable functioning of the old-style levers, even if the user does have to use a little more skill when changing.

g00se

The old 12 position ratchet was pre Ultrashift and Powershift.

Ultrashift is a index-ratchet hybrid. All levers can operate a double or triple front - for a double, there are 4 positions, for a triple there are six. Essentially, two positions per chain-ring for trimming purposes. You can trim going up or down.

With Powershift, the positions going to the larger ring(s) is the same - two clicks with the finger lever per ring. However, going down with the thumb button is like the old escape mechanism. One press per ring. so essentially, the thumb button jumps two 'ratchets' at a time. If you need to trim, you have to jump down then click back with the fingers one ratchet.

If you're thinking about running triples with 11-speed kit, and can wait until later this year. Rumours are that the new 2013 range will have an official Athena triple version (as well as Athena EPS). Out around October/November.

BikingBernie

Thanks gOOse, that is just the information I was looking for!