what mech for Campag 13-29 cassette?

maddog 2
maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
edited April 2012 in Workshop
A friend needs to fit a 13-29 cassette to a 10speed Campag setup, and I'm not a Campag user.

Chainset is 34/50 and the shifters are Chorus 10speed - not sure what year but definitely a few years old (5?)

Does the mech need to be 10speed specific?

What cage length?

Will probably go mid level price wise… so that's , what Centaur?
Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer

Comments

  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    and I'll need a chain too. I normally go for KMC X10 - any issues there?
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Dunno about the chain - I've only used Campag and Mavic. I've heard comments that Camapg is chain sensitive though.

    Cage length should be OK to be short - currently, you can only get short anyway. A year or two back, according to Campag, the short cage couldn't manage the 29.

    I've had no problems with running my Ribble with a 13-29 on a Centaur compact setup with a couple of extra links in the chain. Even the big big combination works fine.

    So, it should work with a short mech but it can't be guaranteed. I don't think the mech needs to worry about the number of gears as the levers control that.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    so either a 10spd and 11spd mech will work?
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    I believe so - as I understand it, the overall cassette widths are the same for the 11 as the 10; so the shifters are different as the pull is smaller across each shift for the 10 speed, but the mech has to cover the same range of movement.

    Just found this - seems clear enough!

    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... =3&t=81901
    Faster than a tent.......
  • mercia_man
    mercia_man Posts: 1,431
    I've used Chorus 50/34 and 13-29 10-speed for several years, latterly with KMC X10 SL chains which work just as smoothly as the Campag originals, last well and are easier to fit with a quicklink connector. You can shorten them easily with a ordinary chain tool. If you go for the silver ones as opposed to the gold, you can get them pretty cheap. Both Merlin and Planet X had bargain prices on them when I replaced my chain last year.

    I've always used a Chorus mid-length mech - the one Campag recommended - but I've read a couple of workshop reports, including one in Cycling Plus, which said the short-cage mech worked fine. So unless you've got an unusual frame, you should be OK with something like a 10-speed Centaur short cage. No point in spending extra for an 11-speed mech although I agree with Rolf F that an 11-speed mech should work with a 10-speed set-up.
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    I'm not sure if an 11-speed mech would work with 10-speed chorus levers - but willing to be corrected.

    If you go for 10 speed mechs, you can use a short cage mech if you get a new design (2011/12 - new logo) derailleur. If you go for an earlier 10-speed model (2010 and earlier), you'll need a medium cage for that gearing and the 29 tooth ring.

    Officially, the more recent 2011/12 10-speed mechs are not compatible with previous 10-speed levers - slight difference in cable pull - but those that have tried say they work well.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,952
    edited April 2012
    med cage mech but you can get away with the short cages as long as you don't cross the extremes... some people get jockey wheel rub on the 26 or 29 with short cage set ups

    a bbb cassette 13-28 will handle the short cage mechs fine including the ribble super cheap xenon mechs.. the 9 speed mech will work IIRC the 11's I know not

    the KMC chain will be fine
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    Have used BOTH short cage 10 speed Centaur mech 2008 and Chorus medium 2009 mechs, both work just fine, BUT short limits use large / large and you need to adjust the worm screw at top jockey wheel to change angle of cage to avoid jockey wheel / 29t rub, but is is workable, just as said avoid extreme combinations (which are a bad idea anyway);

    Have used both Mavic chain and Campag chain successfully, very little difference IME in performance, big difference in wallet impact though !
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    JamesB wrote:
    Have used BOTH short cage 10 speed Centaur mech 2008 and Chorus medium 2009 mechs, both work just fine, BUT short limits use large / large and you need to adjust the worm screw at top jockey wheel to change angle of cage to avoid jockey wheel / 29t rub, but is is workable, just as said avoid extreme combinations (which are a bad idea

    Hi,

    With the new shape 10-speed rear mechs (2011 onwards), short cage works with all standard and compact doubles and all Campag 10 speed cassettes. So there's no worry about using it with a 29.
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    cheers all
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • Velonutter
    Velonutter Posts: 2,437
    If it helps, I have just done this on three bikes for our trip to Majorca this week.

    I run Super Record 11 Speed and the switch over was perfect, nothing to worry about.

    My future son-in-law runs Chorus 10 speed and it works but is no where near as smooth, I'm going to do some more tinkering to try and get it perfect.

    My son ran 10s Centaur (Ally not Carbon) and this proved more of a problem, so much so that I had a spare record rear mech and I switched over to this to set up, it is now as per the 10s Chorus, i.e. needs more tinkering.

    I've built loads and loads of bikes and this switch proved the most problematic on 10s but a cinch with 11s.

    It will work, but you have got to persevere to get it smooth and usable.

    If doing it don't forget to adjust the B Screw so that you have the maximum clearance on the 29, possibly the problem evolved around the jump from 26-29, a 3 tooth jump when the chain is already starting to come under more tension
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    Velonutter wrote:
    My son ran 10s Centaur (Ally not Carbon) and this proved more of a problem, so much so that I had a spare record rear mech and I switched over to this to set up, it is now as per the 10s Chorus, i.e. needs more tinkering.

    I've built loads and loads of bikes and this switch proved the most problematic on 10s but a cinch with 11s.

    Out of interest, what year was the centaur mech?
  • Velonutter
    Velonutter Posts: 2,437
    g00se wrote:
    Velonutter wrote:
    My son ran 10s Centaur (Ally not Carbon) and this proved more of a problem, so much so that I had a spare record rear mech and I switched over to this to set up, it is now as per the 10s Chorus, i.e. needs more tinkering.

    I've built loads and loads of bikes and this switch proved the most problematic on 10s but a cinch with 11s.

    Out of interest, what year was the centaur mech?

    Not really sure as I bought it 2nd hand, but at a guess 2005/6 ish
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    g00se wrote:
    JamesB wrote:
    Have used BOTH short cage 10 speed Centaur mech 2008 and Chorus medium 2009 mechs, both work just fine, BUT short limits use large / large and you need to adjust the worm screw at top jockey wheel to change angle of cage to avoid jockey wheel / 29t rub, but is is workable, just as said avoid extreme combinations (which are a bad idea

    Hi,

    With the new shape 10-speed rear mechs (2011 onwards), short cage works with all standard and compact doubles and all Campag 10 speed cassettes. So there's no worry about using it with a 29.

    And, to clarify, the pre 2011 10 speed rear mechs will probably work with the 29 - and that does include big big despite what the manual might say!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    and that does include big big despite what the manual might say!

    it may well work but it is a very inefficient setup on teh drive train, maxm cross over angle and tight chain tension make it less than smooth running---and given that an equivalent gear ratio (or very close indeed) can be found on small ring why do it? putting a lot of excess strain on whole drive system :(
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    JamesB wrote:
    and that does include big big despite what the manual might say!

    it may well work but it is a very inefficient setup on teh drive train, maxm cross over angle and tight chain tension make it less than smooth running---and given that an equivalent gear ratio (or very close indeed) can be found on small ring why do it? putting a lot of excess strain on whole drive system :(

    Read what I said. I'm not advocating that anyone rides big big - I'm saying that chances are, if you use a short cage Campag derailleur with a 13-29 cassette that you can run big big without the system jamming. This thread is about what mech is needed for a 13-29; not how the gears should be used. It is not really ideal to run a gear train such that big big will jam - even though it isn't a good idea to use that combination, it can happen. Eg, approaching an unexpected sharp climb after a fast descent you may end up shifting to the biggest cassette sprocket before you've dropped the front - you may not even put any pressure through the gears at that point but you still don't want it to jam.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Rolf F wrote:
    JamesB wrote:
    and that does include big big despite what the manual might say!

    it may well work but it is a very inefficient setup on teh drive train, maxm cross over angle and tight chain tension make it less than smooth running---and given that an equivalent gear ratio (or very close indeed) can be found on small ring why do it? putting a lot of excess strain on whole drive system :(

    Read what I said. I'm not advocating that anyone rides big big - I'm saying that chances are, if you use a short cage Campag derailleur with a 13-29 cassette that you can run big big without the system jamming. This thread is about what mech is needed for a 13-29; not how the gears should be used. It is not really ideal to run a gear train such that big big will jam - even though it isn't a good idea to use that combination, it can happen. Eg, approaching an unexpected sharp climb after a fast descent you may end up shifting to the biggest cassette sprocket before you've dropped the front - you may not even put any pressure through the gears at that point but you still don't want it to jam.

    Anyone who cycles at night risks going big/big or small/small on occassions. Here in the Cotswolds at night one cannot see one's hand in front of one's face let alone the gears on the rear cassette so I have learned to try and go on feel and remember the shifts...but it is easy to get wrong.
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184


    Rolf F wrote:

    JamesB wrote:

    and that does include big big despite what the manual might say!


    it may well work but it is a very inefficient setup on teh drive train, maxm cross over angle and tight chain tension make it less than smooth running---and given that an equivalent gear ratio (or very close indeed) can be found on small ring why do it? putting a lot of excess strain on whole drive system

    Read what I said. I'm not advocating that anyone rides big big - I'm saying that chances are, if you use a short cage Campag derailleur with a 13-29 cassette that you can run big big without the system jamming. This thread is about what mech is needed for a 13-29; not how the gears should be used. It is not really ideal to run a gear train such that big big will jam - even though it isn't a good idea to use that combination, it can happen. Eg, approaching an unexpected sharp climb after a fast descent you may end up shifting to the biggest cassette sprocket before you've dropped the front - you may not even put any pressure through the gears at that point but you still don't want it to jam.

    Anyone who cycles at night risks going big/big or small/small on occassions. Here in the Cotswolds at night one cannot see one's hand in front of one's face let alone the gears on the rear cassette so I have learned to try and go on feel and remember the shifts...but it is easy to get wrong.

    Fair enough points taken :)
  • mercia_man
    mercia_man Posts: 1,431
    I've found it's possible to make front and rear mechs work way beyond the official (very pessimistic) stated capacity.

    For example, for most of the 1990s, I used a Chorus short cage rear mech and double front mech on a triple set-up on my touring bike - a seven-speed 13-30 freewheel and 46/36/26 chainset - and it worked fine. It also worked fine when used with a 46/42/26 "half step plus granny" chainset.

    I'm now using a Champ long-cage triple rear mech and 10-speed Centaur triple front mech on a 13-28 nine-speed cassette. I've used this on a 48/40/24 chainset - far beyond the stated capacity of both front and rear mechs - although I fitted a Deda Dog Fang to prevent the risk of the chain falling off on the 40 to 24 change. Currently using 46/39/24 rings. The mechs cope fine.