Torque Wrench?

birdy247
birdy247 Posts: 454
edited April 2012 in Workshop
Hi

I am looking for a torque wrench so i know how tight I should be doing up my seat clamp etc.. on a carbon frame. Can anyone recommend a good quality one which wont break the bank!

Many thanks

Comments

  • Yossie
    Yossie Posts: 2,600
    Do a search on here - this has been discussed ad infintum.

    I personally use a Sealey Draper 2 - 12Nm job: they retail at abut £50 I think but you can get them in deals for about £30, which seems to be the going rate for a 2 - 12Nm wrench.

    Now cue the stadard dull debate .......
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    tighten enough to hold it be. save £50.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Ritchey Torqkey or similar for £12 - pre-set to 5 Nm and suitable for seat collars, stem clamps etc.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Yossie
    Yossie Posts: 2,600
    rake wrote:
    tighten enough to hold it be. save £50.

    No. Incorrect answer.

    Use a torque wrench unless you are Steve Austin and have had all your fingers set so that you can do each and every bolt up exactly the same to the correct tightness.

    But then again you may be, so you could save yourself some money.

    If you are, how fast can you run? Is it faster than Streethawk?
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Alternatively, if you feel you don't need a torque wrench, tighten the screw until you hear a 'crack' and slacken a quarter-turn ;-)
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    Yossie wrote:
    rake wrote:
    tighten enough to hold it be. save £50.

    No. Incorrect answer.

    Use a torque wrench unless you are Steve Austin and have had all your fingers set so that you can do each and every bolt up exactly the same to the correct tightness.

    But then again you may be, so you could save yourself some money.

    If you are, how fast can you run? Is it faster than Streethawk?
    maybe i am, ive had 0 problems without a wrench, infact im probably less likely to break the frame when the bolt threads get oiled or happen to slip more freely. besides that torque wrench i found in my garden had no calibration.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    rake wrote:
    maybe i am, ive had 0 problems without a wrench, infact im probably less likely to break the frame when the bolt threads get oiled or happen to slip more freely. besides that torque wrench i found in my garden had no calibration.

    And maybe the first problem you have will be when your new carbon bars that you tightened with your calibrated fingers end up slipping, and pitch you over the front of your bike!! Simply not worth the risk imho for a calibrated tool that costs less than the 2 bottle cages I have fitted on my bike.

    I personally have a 2-20nm Cyclo Torque Wrench. While the Ritchey torque keys are very good, they are limited to the preset torque and bit size. Great if you have a limited use but no good for the 8nm / 5mm bit needed on my stem and seatpost.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    rake wrote:
    maybe i am, ive had 0 problems without a wrench, infact im probably less likely to break the frame when the bolt threads get oiled or happen to slip more freely. besides that torque wrench i found in my garden had no calibration.

    And maybe the first problem you have will be when your new carbon bars that you tightened with your calibrated fingers end up slipping, and pitch you over the front of your bike!! Simply not worth the risk imho for a calibrated tool that costs less than the 2 bottle cages I have fitted on my bike.

    I personally have a 2-20nm Cyclo Torque Wrench. While the Ritchey torque keys are very good, they are limited to the preset torque and bit size. Great if you have a limited use but no good for the 8nm / 5mm bit needed on my stem and seatpost.
    i dont run carbon bars, i dont see the point. bottle cages are aluminium also, i dont see the point. Im satisfied that not being able to move a part with brute force is enough, more so than using a wrench where one part of the system isnt calibrated (bolt friction) which varies wildly. yes a wrench is better than an unmeasured approach.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    given the original post is about fitting parts to a carbon frame, you're recommending not using a torque wrench based on your own experience using aluminium parts??

    Bolt friction doesnt vary wildly when using properly lubricated bolts. However, anyone who torques bolts up "dry" is wasting their time using a torque wrench and is doing it wrong anyway due, as you say, to bolt friction
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    yes.
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I'll post the link again, you don't need a torque wrench for cycle applications

    http://james-p-smith.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... ycles.html

    I've copied/pasted the end bit

    'The data is clear – my testing with aerospace grade fasteners, calibrated torque wrenches, and calibrated load transducers shows min and max preload can vary from -38.5% to +84.1% from nominal. If you think that torque wrench is getting you the correct value, think again. That’s a huge error, and I’ve heard about too many broken carbon bits to put my trust into some number stamped on a part with no other information'

    I can post more links to the slowtwitch forum if anyone wants to read more into it or if anyone wants to see the author explain more.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    A blog says so - so it must be true and 90 years of engineering is wrong.

    Thats settled then. Anyone wanna buy my torque wrench?? :lol::lol:

    PS i've build enough car and motorbike engines to know that a torque wrench will always be used on my own bike.

    Tech Ed of BR agrees with me, as do most pro bike mechanics (including Contador's now redundant mech. :D )
    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/workshop-why-torque-wrenches-are-invaluable-24917/
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I tell you what, go over to slowtwith.com and do a search for Tigermilk and check out his credentials yourself, or check out some of the other 'experts' in this thread http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi? ... =ASC;mh=25

    You comparing his work with a journalist is a joke?
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    and that machanic is wearing a cap on backwards, he knows nothing about anything.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204

    PS i've build enough car and motorbike engines to know that a torque wrench will always be used on my own bike.
    you can't use brute force on a cyclinder head say to ascertain weather the stretch bolts are in the correct region, but i can grab my handlebars to find out if they'l slip.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    chrisw12 wrote:
    You comparing his work with a journalist is a joke?

    And its a joke to say the pro mechanics have a point too i guess? You believe one person off a forum if you like - i'll stick with my torque wrench rather than guesswork when tightening bolts
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    there is no guess, its clear cut weather it slips or not.
    im going for a pint of bitter. infact with the money i saved on a torque wrench il have two.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    rake wrote:
    you can't use brute force on a cyclinder head say to ascertain weather the stretch bolts are in the correct region, but i can grab my handlebars to find out if they'l slip.

    I thought the same myself.........until they slipped when i hit a pothole!! (aluminium bars and stem that originally came with my bike). Now they get torqued up with the correct lube / carbon assembly paste as applicable to the part, and i've not had another part slip or break - so thats good enough for me.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    rake wrote:
    there is no guess, its clear cut weather it slips or not.
    im going for a pint of bitter. infact with the money i saved on a torque wrench il have two.

    Really?? Steady applied pressure or even a hard jerk of the bars isnt the same as the impact load that will be applied when your weight is on the bars and you hit something with your wheel.

    You said yourself that a wrench is better than an unmeasured approach, but you dont use one anyway it seems?

    Enjoy your pint.
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    chrisw12 wrote:
    You comparing his work with a journalist is a joke?

    And its a joke to say the pro mechanics have a point too i guess? You believe one person off a forum if you like - i'll stick with my torque wrench rather than guesswork when tightening bolts

    'in God we trust, all others must bring data'

    Carry on...
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    This is a forum and its my opinion - i dont need to provide "proof"!!

    Some so called expert on a Triathlon forum who has an opinion doesnt constitute "proof" either, irrespective of his "findings"!! There's plenty of extremely highly qualified experts i'm sure who will state that torque wrenches work - otherwise i doubt they would have survived for nearly 100 years! The use they are put to is irrelevant - so saying that for bike use, they dont work just doesnt cut it for me
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,853
    +1

    he's been banging on for ages about that blog posting and the same author's postings on slowtwitch

    let's see, what shall we do, follow established engineering practice, tried and proven over decades, by countless professionals, engineers and scientists across many disciplines? or take the advice of one guy who's posted unverified results of tests he claims to have done?

    hmm, that's a tough one
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny