Wheelsmith Spoke Prep

dieselgeezer

I'm looking to buy some of this from USA (don't think you can buy it in UK) for a rear wheel build. I'm lead to believe that this stuff acts as a lube during the build & then helps to prevent nipple loosening afterwards (particularly NDS spokes). I don't like the idea of the alternative Spoke Freeze after the build in case it either doesn't penetrate the threads or does it too well & "welds" the nipples on.
Has anyone used this stuff? Is it any good/does what it says? Any tips for using it?
Many thanks.

keef66

I've read that linseed oil behaves in the same way. Anyone tried that??

graham_g

Erm, as above, seriously, pointless. I use 3 in 1 oil... which I think was about 79p last time I actually bought some.

graham_g

Perhaps I should expand - when building a wheel you need a light lubricant on both the eyelet and the spoke thread to ensure that both move freely (thus limiting spoke twist to a certain degree towards final tensioning). This also helps to prevent the nipples seizing in future if/when spokes need a tweak or you come to replace the rim. Threadlock is unnecessary on a well-built wheel. Nipples will not start to come lose on a well-built wheel. Any middle of the road mineral oil is more than up to this task. I am not surprised that it's American's that are selling this stuff... because they just love buying pointless shit

graham_g

OMFG - just seen the price of this stuff. Fuck me. Seriously?! It's only because I know lots of Americans (my best mate is unfortunately married to one), that I stop myself from damning the entire country as a barrel of indescribeable fuckwits. But this is an internet forum, and such broad sweeping statements like that are de rigeur.

amaferanga

I used linseed oil once. Makes truing a wheel at a later date a real ordeal. Now I always use grease. Never had an issue with spokes coming loose (as you shouldn't really with a properly tensioned wheel).

The linseed oil is great for treating the oak cube side tables in the living room though....

ugo.santalucia

I have always used mineral oil, followed by Loctite 220 (or 229, can't remember, the purple one)... but I am considering using copper paste in the future... I bought a large jar of it at Halfords and I just love the stuff... I would spread it on toast like marmite if it wasn't toxic...

Spoke prep and DT threadlock are pricey alternatives, which do the same job. Lineseed oil tends to form a rather hard compound, which is then difficult to displace from the threads

keef66

OK, linseed oil for cricket bats then, mineral oil for nipples.

dieselgeezer

I knew I'd get the response that a properly built wheel shouldn't need anything but a bit of oil. But I tend to get some spoke loosening on the NDS from time to time. I put this down to having a max tension of 110 kg on the DS (no spoke loosening there) & only 55 kg on the NDS. I did think at one stage that it was me being useless at building wheels. However, having tried a pair of handbuilts from a very respected builder, only to find the DS at a whacking 150 kg & not much later having a spoke pulling through the rim, I'm thinking that I ain't that bad after all.
So, what's the secret? My wheels are evenly tensioned, well stress relieved, round & true & correct max tension. So, why do I have NDS spokes loosening?

Monty Dog

I use Loctite 290 post-build to 'lock' the threads - otherwise 222, 223 or 243 are perfectly adequate. I happily use date-expired stuff you get cheap on ebay, rather than paying a premium for DT Spoke Prep or similar.

mpd62

Had the same problem , have built a fair few wheels , front no problem but have had my rear campag hubs go slightly out of true, you tighten the non drive to much its hard to center the rim, so after some reserch I now use DT pro loc nipples on NDS only they dont lock as such just enough to stop any movement, no problem since. All so you'll find a lot of shop handmade wheels use superglue/spokefreeze etc to stop any movement but they are a lot harder to rework.

dieselgeezer

Monty Dog. I did try the Loctite 290 & found it would only really work if there was no oil on the threads & then it worked too well & it was difficult to budge the nipples at a later date. Also, am I right in thinking that if you use the 222, 223 or 243 that it begins to cure after only 20 mins or so? It takes me longer than that to true a wheel!

ugo.santalucia

dieselgeezer wrote:

I knew I'd get the response that a properly built wheel shouldn't need anything but a bit of oil. But I tend to get some spoke loosening on the NDS from time to time. I put this down to having a max tension of 110 kg on the DS (no spoke loosening there) & only 55 kg on the NDS. I did think at one stage that it was me being useless at building wheels. However, having tried a pair of handbuilts from a very respected builder, only to find the DS at a whacking 150 kg & not much later having a spoke pulling through the rim, I'm thinking that I ain't that bad after all.
So, what's the secret? My wheels are evenly tensioned, well stress relieved, round & true & correct max tension. So, why do I have NDS spokes loosening?

Name and shame, for the benefit of all...

I have checked, I do use Loctite 222, but only after I have finished everything and rode the wheels once... all building stresses are relieved... put a drop on each nipple, spin the wheel on the jig to allow centrifugal force to work its magic... 222 is very runny and will penetrate in the threads.
Spokes don't come loose, but I have noticed that radial spokes do come loose when I ride on cobbles, I have therefore stopped building radial, as I do like my cobbles.

Monty Dog

I only apply threadlock after having trued and destressed the wheels - sometimes after the first ride, check them for true and then apply.