700x23 or 700x25 Tyres

elffy
elffy Posts: 98
edited December 2012 in Road buying advice
I am presently using Continental GP4000S 700x25 tyres which I am looking to replace as they are worn. Can anyone tell me if there are any significant differences between 700x25 and 700x23? Better rolling resistance? Increased number of punctures? Less stable?

Thank you in advance

Comments

  • jim55
    jim55 Posts: 93
    i dont think theres much between them tbh ,,25s will b a bit more comfortable and prob a bit more robust ,,if anything i think theyd have a wee bit more rolling resistance but its so small a diff you wouldnt notice ,,youl prob notice a wee bit more comfiness but the rest is neglible (weight and stuff)
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    For the same tyre construction and pressure, fatter tyre will be faster i.e. less rolling resistance due to decreased energy losses due to hysteresis as well as offering more grip. Fatter tyre will provide more comfort as well as less likelihood of impact punctures due to larger volume. Finally, fatter tyres tend to be more progressive when turning whilst some skinnier tyres have a harsh 'transition' which can upset the handling when cornering hard.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • simon_e
    simon_e Posts: 1,707
    Wider tyres have lower rolling resistance.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/b ... ths-29245/
    http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/ ... resistance

    The larger volume of air can make for improved comfort, though at 2mm the difference will not be huge.
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • bristolpete
    bristolpete Posts: 2,255
    Very interesting this. 25 have proven to be faster, but marginal on good roads, but interesting no less that time triallists like 22mm, regular rides tend to have 23c and then the classic Roubaix moniker bike set up has a 25c. Goes back to the mantra that with comfort comes speed I suppose.

    I have just bought some Conti GP4000s tubulars and they only supply 22c so I will be interested in how they roll and feel on my 'best bike'. Realistically, I don't think I will notice any difference but hoping that they wont cut up as much as the vittoria tubs and actually hold more air over 100 miles plus.
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    My bike came with 700x23's on it but the tyres are awful.

    Wanted to get a pair of Marathon Plus in that same size but they only start at 700x25.

    Oh well 700x25 it is then.

    My tyres are so awful I am probably not even going on my bike again until I have those Marathon Plusses on it, the cheap tyres I have on now have been cut to shreds by glass already in only about 300 miles usage. Its not that I have had punctures, I haven't (only one) but glass is actually ripping the tyres with gashes in the tyre, its only a matter of time before a semi-sharp stone or something sticks in a "weak spot" (where the inner tube is visible).

    You can stick 2 or 3 inner tube patches on a tyre tear like that but its not much use, you get what you pay for. Hopefully £60 for a pair of tyres will do the trick, especially with that 5mm puncture protection strip.

    Then again I never was in this to race, I want an all purpose tyre that won't get punctures every time I am out. My dad bought some gimmicky tyres years ago (15 or 20 years ago) and he said there were times he got 2 punctures in 5 miles. Imagine it. Repairing it then 20 minutes later a new puncture. Tyres like that do exist folks, and they ain't even cheap! I know he spent quite a bit on those tyres and they were an absolute joke from day one.

    Unless you're actually racing (99.99% of cyclists aren't) I think you can't go wrong with Marathon Plus. I am still trying to find a report of anyone getting a puncture with them. All you seem to hear about those tyres is "Done 2000 miles through glass every day and not one puncture" and other similar tales. :D For example the reviews on Amazon pretty much all say this.
  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    Manc33 wrote:
    My bike came with 700x23's on it but the tyres are awful.

    Wanted to get a pair of Marathon Plus in that same size but they only start at 700x25.

    Oh well 700x25 it is then.

    My tyres are so awful I am probably not even going on my bike again until I have those Marathon Plusses on it, the cheap tyres I have on now have been cut to shreds by glass already in only about 300 miles usage. Its not that I have had punctures, I haven't (only one) but glass is actually ripping the tyres with gashes in the tyre, its only a matter of time before a semi-sharp stone or something sticks in a "weak spot" (where the inner tube is visible).

    You can stick 2 or 3 inner tube patches on a tyre tear like that but its not much use, you get what you pay for. Hopefully £60 for a pair of tyres will do the trick, especially with that 5mm puncture protection strip.

    Then again I never was in this to race, I want an all purpose tyre that won't get punctures every time I am out. My dad bought some gimmicky tyres years ago (15 or 20 years ago) and he said there were times he got 2 punctures in 5 miles. Imagine it. Repairing it then 20 minutes later a new puncture. Tyres like that do exist folks, and they ain't even cheap! I know he spent quite a bit on those tyres and they were an absolute joke from day one.

    Unless you're actually racing (99.99% of cyclists aren't) I think you can't go wrong with Marathon Plus. I am still trying to find a report of anyone getting a puncture with them. All you seem to hear about those tyres is "Done 2000 miles through glass every day and not one puncture" and other similar tales. :D For example the reviews on Amazon pretty much all say this.
    I use Marathon Plusses on my winter and touring bike and love them. And no, in years of use and many thousands of miles, I've never (knock on wood) had a puncture. They are heavier, of course, than a performance tyre but nowhere near as heavy and cumbersome as they are often portrayed on forums such as this. Exaggeration rules. They are what they are - a reliable touring and commuting tyre and for any other time you really, truly positively do not want to get a flat.

    If you are looking for something a bit more performance oriented, but still with a high degree of puncture resistance and reliability, you can't go far wrong with Conti GP 4 Seasons.
  • But in terms of speed, how much quicker are 25 likely to be over 23 for the average rider? My guess is probably not a lot.
  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    But in terms of speed, how much quicker are 25 likely to be over 23 for the average rider? My guess is probably not a lot.
    There is still comfort and cornering to consider
  • Hmmm, maybe I'll try some 25s in the spring when I replace to something lighter, I've only ever used 23s so will be interesting to see how they compare.
  • I used 23mm GP4000s until June this year. I now ride, race and train on the 25mm GP4000s. I think they're much better. They're more comfortable, I'm a little more confident on them, and they certainly haven't held me back.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Manc33 wrote:
    My bike came with 700x23's on it but the tyres are awful.

    Wanted to get a pair of Marathon Plus in that same size but they only start at 700x25.

    Oh well 700x25 it is then.

    Oh lord - keep away from the Marathon Plus unless you are running a bike hire business. Most punctures are self inflicted but it doesn't take long to fix them and they rarely happen anyway. Duranos are vastly nicer than Marathon Plus and still come with a variety of degrees of puncture protection. I stick with the standard or S versions - Plus are just overkill.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • northpole
    northpole Posts: 1,499
    Monty Dog wrote:
    For the same tyre construction and pressure, fatter tyre will be faster i.e. less rolling resistance due to decreased energy losses due to hysteresis as well as offering more grip. Fatter tyre will provide more comfort as well as less likelihood of impact punctures due to larger volume. Finally, fatter tyres tend to be more progressive when turning whilst some skinnier tyres have a harsh 'transition' which can upset the handling when cornering hard.

    I've heard similar things said before. The thing is: why do the tyre manufacturers offer 23 tyres - is there any advantage offered by them over their 25 brethren? (Another genuine question after my recent transitions lesson!!).

    Peter
  • izza
    izza Posts: 1,561
    Or go for a compromise as Sworks 700x24's are now in - they claim to be their fastest tyres yet.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,022
    I use 25mm bonty hard cases or 24mm vittoria open Pave CX for commuting & training for comfort, durability & puncture resistance. they are also the largest that fit under my mudguards.
    i use 23mm vittoria corsa ebi cx for timetrialling for a combination of lower rolling resistance & drag. The 23mm tyre matches the 23 mm wide C2 rim on my HED Jet wheels for aero efficiency at the brake track and presents a lower frontal area than a 25mm tyre., plus frame clearance.
    Finally I use 21mm tyres on my track bike. This is a frame clearance issue and means I can have a wider range of sprockets and rings using the same chain...

    That is why there are fifferent tyre sizes available... Just coz they make them in various sizes doesn't keen you shoul necessarily buy the thinnest or thickest... It depends what you need.
  • bisoner
    bisoner Posts: 171
    It's not just about tyre sizes, it's also about the pressures you run them at. I used to run my tyres at 115-120psi all the time. I've dropped it down to a 95/100 psi back/front combo and the change in comfort is huge. I haven't noticed a drop in speed on my rides as yet. I've tried both 23mm and 25mm tyres and can't really say the size affected speed or comfort.

    FYI, I use 23mm Pro Race 3 tyres with latex tubes - and I'm using some A23 handbuilt wheels to complete the equation.
  • rich164h
    rich164h Posts: 433
    northpole wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    For the same tyre construction and pressure, fatter tyre will be faster i.e. less rolling resistance due to decreased energy losses due to hysteresis as well as offering more grip. Fatter tyre will provide more comfort as well as less likelihood of impact punctures due to larger volume. Finally, fatter tyres tend to be more progressive when turning whilst some skinnier tyres have a harsh 'transition' which can upset the handling when cornering hard.

    I've heard similar things said before. The thing is: why do the tyre manufacturers offer 23 tyres - is there any advantage offered by them over their 25 brethren? (Another genuine question after my recent transitions lesson!!).

    Peter
    Probably marketing driven as there's a definite perception that 23mm tyres are the only tyre to consider (IMO 23mm simply look better on a racier looking bike, whereas wider tyres visually suit a commuter or tourer better). I'd also add that whilst what Monty Dog has said is true that doesn't allow for real world conditions. I don't know anyone who would use 23mm and 25mm tyres at the same pressure and therefore sees an increase in the rolling resistance / benefit from the wider tyre. I'd guess that most people would be running 25mm tyres at a lower pressure than 23mm tyres and therefore the difference in rolling resistance would decrease significantly, and possibly reverse. I really doubt that anyone could say definitively that rolling resistance is greater with one or the other by riding them alone. I just don't think that people are sensitive to be able to distinguish that vs the other changes/sensations that a wider, lower pressure tyre would bring such as increased comfort and possibly an increase in lateral grip. For me, those are the reasons to change for a wider tyre, not the rolling resistance argument. If you want better rolling resistance, buy a better tyre.

    Has any of these brands done a test comparing rolling resistances when using pressures aligned with those used in the real world? I'd certainly be interested to see what they found out.