Long Hills

DavidJB

Hello!

I am a reasonable fitness and my strengths as a rider is a decent amount of raw power which allow me to sprint well and fly up short sharp hills. I generally have a problem with endurance flagging after 60-65 miles (oddly at any pace?) which I am trying to cure with more base miles and is working to some extent.

I tend to flag on longer gradual hills though, I am not the lightest rider @ 11st 9lbs (5ft 10") and I am losing weight but can't imagine I'll ever get < 11st due to my build nor do I want to lose the kick that I have.

What training would you suggest in order to increase lasting endurance on longer hills? What kind of zones (HR) should I be training in which will most benefit this type of hill?

I know I am never going to be a hill snake as I don't weigh 9 stone but my aim really is to at least stay with the pack and then be able to use the kick near the top of the hill.

Thanks

David

aidso

I don't think there is any substitution to getting out there and just nailing the hills and sticking with it. Make sure you aren't mashing the pedals and using upper body as this is a sure fire way to fatigue quickly. Keep it loosy-goosy .

Regarding flagging, are you eating and drinking regularly. Don't wait until your thirsty to have a drink as by then its normally too late.

SBezza

What do you class as a long hill, in climbing time, this will dictate to a certain degree what training is best.

With regards to the flagging, it could be hydration or nutrition as mentioned above, or just in the mind. It could also be that you are going to hard for that sort of duration, and the body is just getting fatigued.

racingcondor

DavidJB wrote:

I tend to flag on longer gradual hills though

If you're getting 2/3rds of the way up then running out of steam you're going at them too hard early on. Pacing is everything on long hills. I restrain myself so that I feel like I'm taking it too easy on the first 1/3rd of a big hill, by the second that starts to feel like the right pace and it tends to leave me with enough to ride over the top rather than getting there and easing off.

Other than that it sounds like you have the right idea, base miles plus making sure you're eating and drinking enough should improve your stamina.

DavidJB

SBezza wrote:

What do you class as a long hill, in climbing time, this will dictate to a certain degree what training is best.

With regards to the flagging, it could be hydration or nutrition as mentioned above, or just in the mind. It could also be that you are going to hard for that sort of duration, and the body is just getting fatigued.

Around a 2/3+ minute climb.

DavidJB

racingcondor wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

I tend to flag on longer gradual hills though

If you're getting 2/3rds of the way up then running out of steam you're going at them too hard early on. Pacing is everything on long hills. I restrain myself so that I feel like I'm taking it too easy on the first 1/3rd of a big hill, by the second that starts to feel like the right pace and it tends to leave me with enough to ride over the top rather than getting there and easing off.

Other than that it sounds like you have the right idea, base miles plus making sure you're eating and drinking enough should improve your stamina.

Hi its not really that I 'run out of steam' as such. I'm never defeated by hills. My question should have perhaps been phrased "How do I increase my overall speed up long climbs" or my ability to be in zone 4/5 for a longer period. What training sessions would be best to achieve this.

ric/rstsport

what sort of rider are you? in other words do you take part in events? if so, which sportives? RR? TT? Track? or are you just wanting a better effort uphill?

ut_och_cykla

if teh climbs are about 2-3 minutes - 2-3 minute intervalls with good recovery inbetween? If tehy are more liek 20 mins 2 x 20 wouldn't be totally wrong.

DavidJB

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

what sort of rider are you? in other words do you take part in events? if so, which sportives? RR? TT? Track? or are you just wanting a better effort uphill?

Hi ya,

I am racing this season, first off Ludgershall (Cat 3/4 Crit) which is fine for me as its flat but i'm looking to improve my hill work for the Oxford Velo race in April which has a 2 mile climb in the middle of the circuit.

DavidJB

DavidJB wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

what sort of rider are you? in other words do you take part in events? if so, which sportives? RR? TT? Track? or are you just wanting a better effort uphill?

Hi ya,

I am racing this season, first off Ludgershall which is fine for me as its flat but i'm looking to improve my hill work for the Oxford Velo race in April which has a 2 mile climb in the middle of the circuit.

Also in the Spring Chicken Road Race near Bicester in March but can't find a course profile for it (CAT 3/4)

ric/rstsport

there's probably a myriad of things that you can do (e.g. everything from some complicated interval session, through to hard tempo riding) that would *likely* improve you.

Given the information you've supplied and the fact that a good answer wouldn't work in a forum, what you probably want to do is find one aspect and stick to it. Be consistent with your training (i.e. a single session is unlikely to do anything -- you'll need many sessions over weeks/months to improve) and you'll also need to think about some additional factors (e.g. you may not want to lose ~4 kg/9lbs but losing 2 kg may be useful (or it may not, i've no idea about your actual circumstance).

I wouldn't however, do too many ~3min climbs (flat out) right now -- that may make you peak within 6 weeks (which may not be great for you).

Self promotion: feel free to give us a shout about coaching or consultation

cheers
ric

mclarent

DavidJB wrote:

Also in the Spring Chicken Road Race near Bicester in March but can't find a course profile for it (CAT 3/4)

Spring Chicken is flat, but fast.

DavidJB

mclarent wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

Also in the Spring Chicken Road Race near Bicester in March but can't find a course profile for it (CAT 3/4)

Spring Chicken is flat, but fast.

Perfect

Thanks for you advice all.

cyco2

If you are flagging after 60 miles it may not be your fitness but fluid and energy (fuel) loss. So, what is your intake for a 60 mile ride?
If you want to climb better find somebodies wheel on a hill to hang on too.

rokkala

Any room to move your cleats further back? Having them further back can help engage your hammies, glutes, quads, ie. the biggest muscles and puts less stress on your lower leg muscles.

Worth experimenting with if you have any room

DavidJB

cyco2 wrote:

If you are flagging after 60 miles it may not be your fitness but fluid and energy (fuel) loss. So, what is your intake for a 60 mile ride?
If you want to climb better find somebodies wheel on a hill to hang on too.

Unfortunately my training buddies are a cat 1 racer whos the local hill climb champ and a cat 2 racer than weighs like 9 stone lol.

DavidJB

Rokkala wrote:

Any room to move your cleats further back? Having them further back can help engage your hammies, glutes, quads, ie. the biggest muscles and puts less stress on your lower leg muscles.

Worth experimenting with if you have any room

Unfortunately I am tentative about moving my cleats about as I suffered from knee pain until I got them right.

Also ref the nutrition I eat home made flapjacks on the ride and a banana as the shop brought 'energy bars' do a number on my stomach.

Tom Butcher

DavidJB wrote:

cyco2 wrote:

If you are flagging after 60 miles it may not be your fitness but fluid and energy (fuel) loss. So, what is your intake for a 60 mile ride?
If you want to climb better find somebodies wheel on a hill to hang on too.

Unfortunately my training buddies are a cat 1 racer whos the local hill climb champ and a cat 2 racer than weighs like 9 stone lol.

Try doing your hilly rides with a couple of tubby testers - you'll find you are flying - but don't come back on here asking how to increase your power on the flat

cyco2

There you are then.....dump your mates because they are too good and dump the extra weight you're carrying