HGH and it's other benefits.

jerry3571

Hello,
This is a bit of a theory, ok.
I was listening to a Radio 4 programme about a type of high pitched Opera Singing which had been popular prior to the introduction of the "Castrato". The incoming Castrato was a pre pubescent opera singer who in the name of thier Art ended up being Castrated before puberty. This would ensure that the singing voice, going in to adulthood, remained high. When a teenager gets in to puberty, the body stats producing Testosterone which then signals the end of the production of HGH and the individual stops any future bone growth.
The Castrato ends up as a pre pubescent adult for the rest of his life but still manages to produce HGH and so thier bones continue to grow. They end up with long fingers, long feet, long noses etc. The other advantage to the Castrato singer was the rib cage carries on expanding to become oversized and this gap is filled by the lungs, so a Castrato singer can produce a note for a much longer period; outperforming his rivals.
Now, this starts to relate to Cycle Racing in the fact that HGH is a substance which is in common use in the peleton.
Reports have been shown that a Pro cyclist shoe size can increase by 2 sizes over a career and looking carefully; older riders do get the larger noses, jawlines etc which is a sign of HGH use.

NOW.... finally ,the thing that never crossed my mind was the large increase in lung power which comes from the increased growth of the rib cage. In the same way a Castrato singer can hold a note longer than anyone else; a doped rider's (using HGH in the long term) lung capacity should increase to outperform most non doping bike rider and so becoming faster.

Hmmm.... sneaky stuff!!

-Jerry

Murr X

jerry3571 wrote:

Reports have been shown that a Pro cyclist shoe size can increase by 2 sizes over a career and looking carefully; older riders do get the larger noses, jawlines etc which is a sign of HGH use.

It is complete bill$hit of the highest order believe me. I have been around plenty of bodybuilders who use in excess of 10 yes 10 times the amount of HGH than cyclists use and constantly for 15+ years on end. The abnormal bone "growth" that is purported to occur on cuckoo forums like like cyclingnews.com simply does not occur in reality. I find it very amusing that this myth has become so ingrained within the non scientific cycling community that it has now become fact to many despite being complete nonsense. Of course it has become so deeply ingrained in some peoples minds that facts are not enough to change their views.

MurrX

rick_chasey

So what does HGH do Murr?

jerry3571

The growth hormone can kick in again in adulthood with a condition called Acromegaly which can lead to Gigantism; I think the guy who was Jaws in the Jams Bond films suffered with this problem.
Not saying who but a couple of famous US riders have got big jaws also a certain famous fat German rider ended up with a big jawline.
Interesting stuff though.

Secteur

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _myth.html

MrTapir

so what you're saying is that if riders want all the benefits of doping without the risk of being caught, then they should cut their bollocks off.

OffTheBackAdam

The castrati, being castrated before puberty, had a physical development completely different to someone taking HGH in adulthood.
Ditto with Acromegali.
Castrati didn't resemble Acromegalics at all.

Alessandro Moreschi, the last surviving of the Sistine Castrati.
Generally, what the OP has written, is bollocks.

Murr X

Rick Chasey wrote:

So what does HGH do Murr?

I am not saying it has absolutely no use (though very, little), the most pronounced effect other than placebo is lypolysis but then that is maxed out with about 2iu or maybe less. You see firing HGH SQ or IM creates a very different pattern in men than the natural pattern, this is of utmost importance to understand yet I sometimes think that fewer know this than there have been men on the moon. Sadly it doesn't stop highly ignorant folks on cyclingnews.com and the like thinking they are experts and know best, even claiming that it can kill you. Even a former user of the hormone on that forum (who had a brush with the law recently) wrongly suggested this.

I took a lot of time to understand exactly what it is and what it does in endogenous and exogenous forms and they are not the same by a long way. You may be surprised that exogenously administered HGH is an absolutely useless anabolic contrary to common belief. There would be much less fuss about the hormone if it was called Human Repair Hormone for instance or some mundane name or code. Within the advanced bodybuilding and health community it has become apparent in recent years that it (exogenously) does not have the benefits once thought or still touted, but this information takes a very, very long time to filter down to the masses.

Acgromegaly is much more than just a overblown release of HGH and will not occur with exogenous HGH use. If George Hincape had never taken HGH yet was as lean as he is his jaw would look exactly the same, it is more internet forum bull$hit that his jawline is unnatural - it isn't unnatural looking at all though there is little fat and water on his face perhaps giving this impression to some extent though he still looks nothing out of the ordinary at all. It is just in the nature of most people to believe in things that are not happening and they will never realize it - just look to religions for example they can't all be right if any.

As I said in my first post essentially nobody listens to the science anyway let along tries to understand for themselves as it takes too much time, patience and isn't as interesting to most as doing something else.

Hope I'm not coming across as being arrogant as I really don't intend to.

Murr X

rick_chasey

Murr X wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So what does HGH do Murr?

I am not saying it has absolutely no use (though very, little), the most pronounced effect other than placebo is lypolysis but then that is maxed out with about 2iu or maybe less.

Murr X

I don't follow body building, so most of that didn't make much sense to me.

What's the advantage (or not) of lypolysis?

ddraver

jerry3571 wrote:

I think the guy who was Jaws in the Jams Bond films suffered with this problem.

OT:- he was a hospital porter at Kings College Hospital when my parents were students there...

RichN95.

The whole HGH gives you a big chin stuff is a myth, which is embraced by the clowns over at the Asylum forum.

They say 'big chin = doper" regardless of whether the chin was like David Coulthard or Jimmy Hill. Most look the same as they did as kids. Plus known HGH users don't seem top have changed at all.

That's because they are doping obsessed and want to see doping everywhere. If you pay any attention to them. then you're an idiot.

liquor box

I think the big jaw lines are more obvious in women athletes, there was a swimmer for Ireland Michelle Smith (nee debruin??) had a massive jawline and always looked suspect to a lot of people.

People need to remember that the athletes that succeed at the highest levels are genetic freaks and drugs would make an average person get some of these qualities. SOme people get them naturally. Be it a swimmer with size 17 feet or a basketballer who is 7ft tall, some people are designed for their chosen sport.

I am sure I read an article years ago about Miguel Indurain, when he lifted his arms above his head he developed lumps under his ribs, his lungs were too big for his body, he was a freak and this is what made him great.

Looking at a photo does not prove anything, I am only swayed if you show a progression of photos showing a developing body after the body has matured- google Barry Bonds to see a great example of this

jerry3571

So why would the anti doping lot have HGH on their list? Are they misinformed? Are their Scientists of a low calibre?
Also, reading Willy Voet's book shows bikers would take anything to them go faster.
Personally, I think the body changes are clear in some riders as their faces have changed over the years. If the improvements in Vo2 are clear then that may have been the reason why this drug has been used.
This is all high end science and honestly Joe Bloggs is left in the dark to what is what.

Tom Butcher

Murr X wrote:

Hope I'm not coming across as being arrogant as I really don't intend to.

Murr X

No not at all.

liquor box

jerry3571 wrote:

The other advantage to the Castrato singer was the rib cage carries on expanding to become oversized and this gap is filled by the lungs

So if a Cyclist wanted to put up with pain and recovery they could choose to have their ribcage made bigger due to surgery and their lungs will fill in the gap?

Would it be against the rules to do this?

jerry3571

No need for an Op as they take HGH! Ta da!
To be honest it's the likes of Dr Farrari, Sassi, Fuentes et al to be ahead of the game on all this.
We are left with rumour and counter rumour. I must admit to never knowing what HGH is for. Wikipedia seems to be vague as well. :?

- Jerry