The Strike
Comments
-
Did you actually watch the documentary about food/crops? Did you see what the guy at the end said?
He's advocating the turning of water into a trade-able commodity. Questioned on the obvious suffering that is going to cost to those who can't 'afford' it, he gives the scenario of someone running out of soap. He say's if someone runs out of soap then it's their fault because they should have gone to the store to buy some more before they ran out. It's their fault. (What a ludicrously trivial comparison)
This sounds familiar. Hitler killed lot's of Jews (and Poles and Gypsies and Disabled and Communists) and what was his excuse? They were Jewish - a sub-class, obsessed with money, greedy, a leech on society - it was their own fault. Stalin did it too with political dissidents. (Congratulations to the first smart arse bastard who posts 'Godwin's Law' - it's a valid comparison in this case! More will die this year from hunger than Hitler ever killed, despite there being plenty of food) It's the same reasoning used above. Blame the victim. It's f*cking immoral.
So we, the labor force are to be subjugated by our pay masters and it's our own fault if we're poor because we had the same opportunities as those at the top of the chain right? This is what the neo-liberal calls 'freedom' and 'choice'. That's absurd. Life isn't like that. There are always people who are victims of circumstances beyond their control.0 -
anto164 wrote:I don't think the government should offer a better offer, it's great as it is. People will never be happy. They have to understand that a lot of the private sector is currently in the same position, but aren't getting offers like these.
Pensions are part of pay and conditions. Public sector workers generally get paid less than private sector counterparts with similar roles/skills and in return get job security (although that's not so much the case these days) and secure pensions. If you want staff to accept these changes to their pensions then they will have to be paid more. Otherwise we might find that fewer people are willing to teaching our brats/drive our trains/collect our waste or whatever other function a public sector worker might carry out.0 -
anto164 wrote:They have to understand that a lot of the private sector is currently in the same position, but aren't getting offers like these.
No! You have to understand that you could have the same pension as Sir Fred Goodwin because you have the same opportunity for success as he had and everyone in the private sector/the labor market has. It's up to you to work hard enough to get a better pension right?
That is the beauty of free-markets and competition isn't it. It's your own rational self interest that will drive you to a great pension! Come on, lap it up. Stop complaining that you're getting a hard deal. Embrace freedom and choice. [/sarcasm]
Or how about everyone gets a fair and just payout for their hard work. Sort of like the public sector, except they're being arse raped right now by the government.
No-one in the public sector has the opportunity to get a pension like Sir Fred Goodwin. You do. So stop complaining about the strike.0 -
verylonglegs wrote:EKIMIKE wrote:See this:
viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12813962
or how about the drugs companies who used victims of the Bhopal disaster to be their lab rats:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ccuHy0EM8U
What about the Bhopal disaster itself? What about the mining companies who let toxic bi-products leak into ecosystems affecting not only the environment but also people? What about the weapons industry accountable for millions of deaths worldwide?
Come on. The financial industry is bad but it's not alone. It's doesn't make their greed any less distasteful but by vilifying the banks alone we do a huge disservice to ourselves as victims of corporate interests.
I feel we are reaching the crux of the real debate here, our relationship with corporatism. Do you think you can persuade people to give up what the corporates have made available for the masses? It's everything, from the computers we use to post on here, our nice shiny new bike bits and apparel...all the way to the films we watch and nice shiny tv's we use to watch them on. Can you imagine extolling the evils of the large companies to the masses and then telling them the things they'd miss out on if they didn't exist? I don't think it's an argument you'd win in all honesty.
I don't despute multinational corporations provide a lot of goods and employment for a lot of people but, those people and consumers also provide them with massive profits which instead of paying the proper amount of tax on,they don't. So the peoples exchequer goes short to the tune of £billions; £billions which would help fill the defecit.
When will the penny drop with some, this is all so avoidable IF you truely believed in a fair and just society rather than the one we inhabit at the minute.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
anto164 wrote:RichN95 wrote:anto164 wrote:I do hope that everyone striking loses a days pay.
That's generally how strikes work. If it wasn't, I'd go on strike every day.
I don't know about strikes tbh.. I'm fairly young, and in the private sector. IMO, what the public sector is getting offered is a bloody good offer.
I don't think the government should offer a better offer, it's great as it is. People will never be happy. They have to understand that a lot of the private sector is currently in the same position, but aren't getting offers like these.
Go on then, what's so great about the Govt offer? There are a lot of people making judgements about things they profess to know nothing about or even the fundamentals of the situation. You're right, people will never be happy with ignorant people pontificating without a shred of evidence or knowledge.
"I know nothing about physics tbh, but I think a scientist should invent a hat made of dark matter, by next week, and it should cost nothing"0 -
Stanley222 wrote:Eh!?! What on earth makes it a good offer???? :shock:
Not understanding anything about the situation.0 -
So, when everybody takes the day off for the royal wedding, it's fine?
When the public sector go on strike for the day it's going to cripple the economy and ruin the recovery?
Bullsh!t, neoliberal right wing propoganda at it's very best."That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
verylonglegs wrote:EKIMIKE wrote:See this:
viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12813962
or how about the drugs companies who used victims of the Bhopal disaster to be their lab rats:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ccuHy0EM8U
What about the Bhopal disaster itself? What about the mining companies who let toxic bi-products leak into ecosystems affecting not only the environment but also people? What about the weapons industry accountable for millions of deaths worldwide?
Come on. The financial industry is bad but it's not alone. It's doesn't make their greed any less distasteful but by vilifying the banks alone we do a huge disservice to ourselves as victims of corporate interests.
I feel we are reaching the crux of the real debate here, our relationship with corporatism. Do you think you can persuade people to give up what the corporates have made available for the masses? It's everything, from the computers we use to post on here, our nice shiny new bike bits and apparel...all the way to the films we watch and nice shiny tv's we use to watch them on. Can you imagine extolling the evils of the large companies to the masses and then telling them the things they'd miss out on if they didn't exist? I don't think it's an argument you'd win in all honesty.
You're right in the sense that it would be difficult to persuade people that material goods and money aren't the root of happiness. But I genuinely don't think it is impossible, if people are prepared to speak out and make their voices heard. Odds are against it, but not impossible. By doing nothing, like you seem to be suggesting, then it is a battle you are sure to lose."That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
I wont be striking. The charity I work for provides much need housing and supportfor people with a disability. Whilst I'm angry with funding cuts there's still hundreds of people who still need support today...Insert witty signature here0
-
All jobs are sh*t, and we all deserve better pay and pensions. Done.0
-
EKIMIKE wrote:verylonglegs wrote:I feel we are reaching the crux of the real debate here, our relationship with corporatism. Do you think you can persuade people to give up what the corporates have made available for the masses? It's everything, from the computers we use to post on here, our nice shiny new bike bits and apparel...all the way to the films we watch and nice shiny tv's we use to watch them on. Can you imagine extolling the evils of the large companies to the masses and then telling them the things they'd miss out on if they didn't exist? I don't think it's an argument you'd win in all honesty.
Let me get this straight you are saying:
a) It's ok to murder people so long as you invent something cool or useful?
OR
b) To invent something cool or useful you have to murder people?
OR
c) The world would be a worse place if we didn't screw the majority of humanity aka the 'third world'?
Why do we have to accept any of the above? There are plenty of decent, moral and socially conscious corporations out there who are successful and have contributed great things.
The reciprocity argument ("he's doing it, so i will too") is lame, weak, it stinks and it's morally bankrupt. So is the all or nothing argument.
The all or nothing/black and white argument is typical neo-liberal doctrine. "You're not for free-markets? You're a communist". No, it's just patently obvious that in life a considered, mixed approach tends to work better. Why does it have to be all or nothing? That's like having an ideological monopoly! Ironically a neo-liberal free marketeer knows and preaches that monopolies are bad - because they are.
Sorry, you really need to calm down as I wasn't saying those things at all and attempting to advocate what goes on, I was merely pointing out the problems you face in trying to re-organise how we live our lives. It goes back to the self-interest argument where you talk of rational self-interest, I just don't see the populace who are accustomed to a particular lifestyle being that giving.0 -
EKIMIKE wrote:It's ok to murder people.
Thank God For That. 8)0 -
pease wrote:I wont be striking. The charity I work for provides much need housing and support for people with a disability. Whilst I'm angry with funding cuts there's still hundreds of people who still need support today...
Pease
Do you work in the public sector with a pension paid for by the Govt? Are you a member ofone of the Unions that has held a ballot regarding strike action? You do realise that the strike is a Union-led protest about Public sector pension reforms?0 -
I'm relatively new to the forum lark, and not entirely sure how this works so nervous to suggest it, but it feels like a good time to blame Wiggle?
This thread is 90-something per cent dross. Nobody likes capitalism, but it's winning at the moment. While there are greedy bar stewards around who can and have (and will again) ballsed everything up for all of us, there's still no real justification to make these changes. There's a lot wrong with the way the public sector ism anaged, but just because some companies' business models couldn't cope with the change in economic climate (a neat model for evolution if ever we saw one), doesn't mean that the hardworking teachers and civil servants should be made to suffer as well.
I had breakfast this morning in my warm house before walking on paved footpaths to catch a train to work. I'm very grateful for that and all the other luxuries I get from either my salary or taxes. I look forward to my retirement, which is a basic principle here but one that many people in the world wouldn't understand.
I've gone evangelical again... Get some perspective.0 -
MaxwellBygraves wrote:TheStone wrote:You can blame a lot of different sets of people. Personally I blame the bankers and the governments the most (not sure which order).
Good! Are you prepared to let them get away with it by making ordinary people pay big time for it?
No. if it was my choice, I would have punished the banks and investors much more. The banking industry would be much smaller and bonuses would be gone for decades.
However, the extra spending on the public sector was the other side of this debt boom. There was a lot of extra money from the taxation of the banking system and the economy off the back of all the extra lending .... plus the extra government debt!
If we're all agreed the boom was wrong and is now gone (for a long time), then the public sector has to reduce too.
0 -
You're conflating the size of the Public sector with Pension rights. The Strike is about Pension provision, or rather the scale of the cuts to it.
The Public sector is reducing (there are cuts, they were in the News) but these affect people in the future. The Pension issue affects people retrospectively; people who have made plans based on an expected level of income and an expected retirement age.0 -
Stanley222 wrote:I think you'll find the strike is tomorrow :roll:
I wonder how many people did that this morning when the alarm went off.... ahhh f**k its strike day tomorrow.
0 -
So Dilemma was a civil servant with his so called gold plated pension etc. Then why did you leave if it was so wonderful. To cap it all you now think that if someone goes on strike they should be fired and you given their job. Please explain.0
-
What can I look forward to tomorrow when I break the strike?0
-
Stewie Griffin wrote:What can I look forward to tomorrow when I break the strike?
Which Union are you in? In which branch of the Public sector do you work?0 -
Stewie Griffin wrote:What can I look forward to tomorrow when I break the strike?
Do people still get trouble for breaking the strike or is that a thing of the past?
With so few voting, I'm guessing lots of workers will be ignoring it?0 -
I'll be at work, unlike some of my (teaching) colleagues. I'm still a bit surprised that no-one agreed with my suggestion that as the strikers wouldn't be getting paid, they should give the money to those of us who will be doing their work :twisted:0
-
GiantMike wrote:Stewie Griffin wrote:What can I look forward to tomorrow when I break the strike?
Which Union are you in? In which branch of the Public sector do you work?
Not in any Union, I work in the Housing Dept of a Local Authority.0 -
Stewie Griffin wrote:What can I look forward to tomorrow when I break the strike?
I'll be coming in (MOJ) and the Union in question is PCS. I expect to walk through the doors as normal without any bother, mainly because any strike we have had in the last 6 or 7ish years has gone like this:
5 members of staff always strike, the same 5, (out of an office of around 100) there is no demo outside, no bin with burning wood keeping all the strikers cosy, no not that, because the 5 strikers openly admit they just use it as a day off, in front of the telly, not for any political or indeed meaningful means, purely because they fancy a day off and don't mind missing a day's pay. I imagine the majority or strikers will be doing the same tomorrow accross the country, because the majority couldn't actually give a shiny sh*te, its just a day off, 'innit'.
Infact last time there was a strike, i happened to be outside having a smoke at the exact moment the Local union leader turned up. he asked if i, and a smoking companion, were the picket. I said no. he asked where the picket was, i said there isn't one, because nobody give a sh*t. he seemed upset by this, i explained it was probably because everyone knows Unions are a bunch of robbing b@stards who are out to line their own pockets, and are virtually useless when it comes to dealing with samll internal queries, let alone on a national level with the government.
Chapeau everyone for this thread, its been nice for everyone to show their colours. Im public sector, so please don't linch me. (i know i'm paid extrememly well (lower than national average), and don't really do alot (37hours a week - national average, of strenuous work, due to redundancies and staff shortages, staff not being replaced, less people to do more work etc) and my pension is great (think some people are living in the 80's if they think a Civil Service pension is what it used to be http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15925017).
Anyway, im going to look at my bike for a while, i might even consider riding it later.0 -
Stewie Griffin wrote:GiantMike wrote:Stewie Griffin wrote:What can I look forward to tomorrow when I break the strike?
Which Union are you in? In which branch of the Public sector do you work?
Not in any Union, I work in the Housing Dept of a Local Authority.
I don't think you're allowed to strike and therefore can't break it. I believe you can only strike if you're a member of the Union that organised the ballot, otherwise you're just having a day off which is a disciplinary offence.
After the Tories' Employment Acts there are now significant limitations on what can be deemed legitimate strike action. It must be balloted by the Union. If not (such as the recent BA planned strikes) the employer can get an injunction stopping the Union from striking (in the BA case the membership records were out of date so not every member got a chance to vote). If a majority of voters (not members) votes in favour the strike is legitimate.0 -
Just heard on the news that the two years pay freeze and two years at 1% increase for the public sector equates to a 15% pay cut.And on top of that an increase in pension payments more hours worked and less pension at the end. And all those "Daily Mail" readers wonder why we are striking0
-
bearfraser wrote:Just heard on the news that the two years pay freeze and two years at 1% increase for the public sector equates to a 15% pay cut.And on top of that an increase in pension payments more hours worked and less pension at the end. And all those "Daily Mail" readers wonder why we are striking
... and the 15% is presuming inflation falls!
I have to say, that's fairly harsh.0 -
and 700,000 odd job losses over the next 5 years.
Hello austerity. Don't get too comfy.
Paul Mason gives a good summary as to why it's all so difficult.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15921979
Best bit is the pie-chart at the bottom.0 -
:shock: Pie chart no. 1!! It's like an economic death sentence for someone my age.
A big thanks to the generations that precede me. Well done, c**ts. Think i might sod off to northern europe so i can live a decent life.0
