Help: How do I hold this on my rear hub?

d3matt

I found this morning that my rear wheel was ceased up. I'm trying to take apart the rear hub to clean and grease the bearings. However, I can't get the nut off - marked A on the photo. I need to grip the flat sides marked B in the photo, but I can't get anything in there as it is inside the cassette holder lip.
What's the trick?

gtd.

remove the axle by removing the opposite ends cone and locknut (the bit your trying to undo) and pull out the whole axle through the free hub side

d3matt

Thanks for your reply.
That is also what's confusing me. I do that the locknut and cone off the other side and the axle wont budge.
Anyway, after seeing your reply and then realising the axle should come out and gave it another go and had to really smack it with a copper faced mallet. It was surprising stuck solid, but it has come out now. Lots of rust holding it all together. Amazing how much it can seize in just a week.

d3matt

Bugger. Now seen that the bearing inside has fallen apart. Not sure if this had already done that or if my hitting it with the hammer had done it. I've had to cancel my ride out this afternoon now.

I don't know anything about rear hubs as this is the first time I've worked on this part of the bike. Are the bearings replaceable? God knows how you get in there?
Looking at pictures (on Superstar website) of new hubs, it would therefore seem that the whole lot gets changed and therefore means rebuilding the wheel/spokes and therefore isn't a job for a DIY beginner, as you need to true up the wheel. Or do I buy the hub of my choice and just let the bike shop finish the fitting?

How do I identify which hub I need?

d3matt

I forgot to add, this bearing "C" works fine (the brake side). It is the bearing on the opposite side which has disintegrated.

baznav73

If the bearing has broken up its probably better to get your local shop to do it as getting the remains out of the hub can be tricky, and you will have to get a replacement bearing which you won't be able to identify without the rubber seals on which the bearing number is located, a lot of times the bearings on each side are the same but not always.

supersonic

What hub is it?

S-M

Bearing C looks like a cartridge bearing, if the other side looked like that before it fell apart, or the parts you have left look the same as bearing C, then you should be able to pick up a replacement bearing cheaply enough.

Check bearing C for some numbers on the side of it, and then try searching ebay/google for some replacements.

nicklouse

Down to your LBS or bearing shop and replace them.

d3matt

The hub is unbranded. From the Boardman Team FS spec the wheelset is Ritchey Pro Disc rims, sealed bearing rear hub & stainless steal double butted spokes. From looking around on the net, it looks like the hub could be by Formula.
The bearing (C) that is good is a 6000-2RS. However, the one on the other side wasn't this style. It has very small ball bearings of only about 2mm in diameter and these were in a wire cage. However when I pulled this cage out, there were no ball bearings in it at all! The cage is shown here on the brake disk.

nicklouse

Just looks like you have killed the bearing. Get the rest out.

d3matt

On another close inspection again, I think you're right. I now have two rubber seals and although the text is extremely small, I think they say "JAPAN 6803RU". I therefore assume the metal bearing case is item 'F' in the photo. Trouble is, how do I get this out?
I guess item 'E' is a locking ring that needs to be removed first to get the bearing out. But how the hell do you get this out? It's on too tight to prise anything underneath it. It looks like any attempt to remove this will damage it beyond use.

gtd.

6803 bearings are 17mmx26mmx5mm

d =17 Bore (internal diameter of bearing /shaft diameter)
D =26 Diameter (external diameter of bearing / hub internal diameter)
B =5 Width of bearing

That will be for the fatter end of the axle as d will be smaller at the free hub end.

If you remove the freehub (using the large 12mm allen/hex fitting inside) you should be able to drift the bearings out

Youll need to knew what size/code bearings are used in the free hub if you drift out the outer race of the bearing you should be able to measure D and B with a vernier and measure d off the inner race or the axle. You could measure D from the freehub once the bearing is removed but would be harder to measure B unless there is a step to show the width of the outer race.

Youll want to order bearings that end with -2RS at the end of the code, this means they have a rubber seal on each end
see Notes on Ball Bearings

RU sounds like the bearings have a rubber seal on only one side, if thats the case and water has got in to the free hub it explains why it seized.

Youll need to thoughoughly clean that disc brake and re-bed the pads.

I'd remove the free hub then to save the free hub I'd slot it into a old cassette spider held in a vice or hold it in a soft jawed vice and drift the bearings out.then drift any bearings from the hub itself. check bearing codes or measure them or take it all to a bearing supplier if you cant measure the bearings if the codes are obliterated.

if its worth saving, just replace all the bearings with the correct sized -2rs bearings and it should be fine, unless you can get replacement free hubs and in that case shot one on probably easier

d3matt

Thank you for that reply - a great help.
The hex inside the freehub is more like 22mm! Never seen such a tool.

Update: It's not a hex as it has 8 sides rather than 6.

gtd.

that 22mm hex looks like its in the hub body itself rather than the free hub there should be something in the free hub to allow it to be removed from the hub, unless it just pops off, like a hope pro 2/xc/bulb? but Id imagine it unscrews.

The big hex in the hub is possibly how they fasten the free hub on in the factory, slide the hub onto a large hex then use a tool to screw on the free hub? then fit the hubs left hand bearing.

You can got some huge allen keys but might make it cheaper to rebuild the wheel on a new hub it seems difficult to get formula oem free hubs. to rebuld the wheel youll need to know the ERD or the rim

Sheldon Brown wrote:

(Effective Rim Diameter. This is the rim diameter measured at the nipple seats in the spoke holes, plus the thickness of the two nipple heads. The E.R.D. is needed for calculating the correct spoke length.)

and the spec of your new hub to get the right length spokes.

Are they Ritchey hubs?

Manuals are here
http://www.ritcheylogic.com/media/File/ ... struct.pdf
http://www.ritcheylogic.com/media/File/ ... struct.pdf

d3matt

Sorry, I was looking in the wrong side. The 22mm octagon is the hub body.
The freehub side has two notches inside as per photo.

gtd.

looks like you might need an improvised tool and a good soak in plus gas had a look on crc's tools but cant see a two pin remover, a car McPherson strut tool might fit if your lucky. if there is no threads where it sits you could tap it round with a chisel but its probably damn tight and if there is any threads where the tool hits they will be ruined.

McPherson strut tool

d3matt

The brown stuff in there seems to be mud rather than rust.

I found this freehub tool but the diameter of it isn no where near large enough. I'll have to try with two large screwdrivers.

S-M

Formula Hub spares must be available, as Halfords replaced my freehub under warranty a few months back.

Saying that though, i would not be suprised if the tech in store just bolted any old parts on the wheel to "fix it" as the repair was not done very well, nor did it last very long..

allthegearnoidea

if the Hub i a formula one then an 11mm allen key will pop the freehub off, will be tight mind!! should be able to get iit in the drive side too, but make sure its in tight!! can also be handy to use a vice to hold the allen key and slide the wheel onto it and turn the wheel to undo it if Very tight!!
when you get the freehub body off you can see a small rubber seal that you can pop off and apply some grease tot he bearings inside, but make a note of which way round the seal came off!

formula spares are a funny one as despite coming on Many bikes and lots of oem hubs the spares are sent form formula direct, there used to be a chap in the uk that held spares but Formula but he didnt know the difference between cup and cone and Cartridge bearing hub body's! they have changed the website now and no longer list distributers, so you need to go direct through them, they arnt the speedyest of responders either!!!
Formula Hubs and Formula brakes are also two completely seperate companies,

the side your looking to take apart above witht eh two lugs are the tooling marks set inthe factory when they are put together, they arnt meant to be taken apart that way after being built, you can get bmx freehub tools that look like they'll fit but wont really work!

you should be able to prise the remains of the bearing out of the hub, may be worth soaking in plusgas or similar first, but if you use a strong edged flat blade screwdriver and a small thin bit of wood ontop of the hub to avoid damage you should be able to prise the old bits up, ive had to do it in the past, takes a bit of work but is doable!

with the other bearing, pop the seals off using a very fine flat blade to get under the edge and clean up and repack with grease! more often they come with Just enough on them,
bearings wise, you can pick up the bearings cheap from ebay if you search for the bearing code, i picked up a pack of 10 for mine of the ones in my hubs and as above, popped the seals off and greased them all up with waterprrof grease and popped the seals back on, have run them in the various wheels and all have be spot on!

d3matt

Thanks very much for that long reply. I do like replies with a lot of info.

I did a bit more searching tonight and found this thread which shows the same hub (with better photos) as mine and confirms that you've said. I'll give it a go later in the week. Just trying to buy a long reach 11mm and 12mm allen keys now.

allthegearnoidea

When I got the freehub from the uk guy couple of years back it came with a socket attarchment 11mm bit, 10 and 12mm allens are easy to get, 11 not so!
Have a look for a local wholesalers as they often have Full sets and individual allens of odd sizes!
Ebay is often a good bet too! All the bike parts peeps make them, park, pedros, pro, shimano, possibly superstar tools too!