Forum home Road cycling forum Pro race

Is CAV better 'rider'?

littleking02littleking02 Posts: 132
edited September 2011 in Pro race
Just wondering as riders goes is Cav better 'cyclist' than riders similar to him with the likes of Thor or Bonnen?
ITS BY DOING WHAT EVER, THAT YOU BECOME WHOEVER!

Posts

  • ProssPross Posts: 22,135
    I don't know what better 'cyclist' means. Arguably Boonen and Cav are better as they can win in a greater variety of situations. However, Cav is undoubtably the best there is at the moment in his specialism. I would suggest the best all round cyclist at present is Gilbert.
  • Yeah sorry I mean all round sprinter in different situations our of him, Bonnen or Thor.
    He is yet to do anything at Flanders or Roubaix...etc.
    ITS BY DOING WHAT EVER, THAT YOU BECOME WHOEVER!
  • Pip Gilbert is the Best overall rider this year, Cav by far the best Sprinter though...
  • Yeah sorry I mean all round sprinter in different situations our of him, Bonnen or Thor.
    He is yet to do anything at Flanders or Roubaix...etc.

    Cav is more of a 'Bunch' sprinter than Boonen and Thor, Thor is an out and out powerhouse, Cav is a quick finisher, Boonen is past it (for the benefit of Rick Chasey :wink: )
  • Is there a reason why Cav can't do well Roubaix? He couldn't be censored or just its never ends in a bunch sprint where he can't use his five little helpers leading him to the finishing line?
    ITS BY DOING WHAT EVER, THAT YOU BECOME WHOEVER!
  • They're at different stages in their careers.
    Hushovd & Boonen are what one could called "Ages Sprinters", they no longer have that zip to win from the big bunch, but enough power to either win from a small bunch, or to go it alone.
    Will Cav turn into one in say 7 or 8 years? maybe.
    Hushovd's turned into a Jalabert-type rider, Jalabert was a great sprinter, but turned his abilities & training into a breakaway & hill sprinting specialist.
    I don't know if he's even ridden Paris-Roubaix. The race is such a lottery & there's a not insignificant chance of coming a mucker & breaking something.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • LangerDanLangerDan Posts: 6,132
    Is there a reason why Cav can't do well Roubaix? He couldn't be censored or just its never ends in a bunch sprint where he can't use his five little helpers leading him to the finishing line?

    Even if you could guarantee that the race would finish with a bunch sprint, there is still the not inconsequential matter of making it to Roubaix in the first instance. Speed and determination on their own won't keep the bike underneath you in the Arenberg.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,135
    The cobbled sections and length mean that P-R never ends in a bunch sprint. He would have to get into a break and then everyone would be trying to work him over as they wouldn't want to go head to head in a sprint with him. He would also be more tired as he would have to contribute to keeping the break going. The Classic most suited to him is Milan San Remo which he has already won, Paris - Tours would be an option and there are several semi-classics he could win. I think it's doing him a disservice to say he can't win if he can't use his "five little helpers leading him to the finish line" though. The reason he has used the HTC train so much is because other teams won't work knowing he is the best sprinter. I'm sure if another team controlled the finish of a race and kept it together for a bunch sprint he would still win more than he loses.
  • edhornbyedhornby Posts: 1,780
    Cav did an inside sport interview with Gabby Logan a few years ago and he mentioned that as a kid he used to imagine winning paris roubaix, actually mentioned PR again later in the interview

    massive hint that it was a big goal of his - which Gabby Logan completely missed...

    I think that he'll switch to doing the classics later in his career - he'll need a new challenge once he's won the green jersey a few times, and with the demise of highroad the team he rides for next won't be completely focused on sprint trains so he will start to expand his repertoire
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,622 Lives Here
    Loving the Boonen love-in on this forum at the moment, especially given his quite censored 2011.

    Cavendish is seriously special. A once in a generation type rider (or even more rare).

    It's childish to compare him to guys like Boonen, since he's a different beast entirely.
  • This has be dicussed a bit in Rick's "Top ten sprinters by wins" thread, Boonen and Cavendish aren't really the same sort of rider. Cavendish is a bunch sprinter, a bit like Cipollini or Petacchi where as Boonen is a classics rider who can sprint a bit, very much like Museeuw.

    Can Cavendish win either Flanders or Roubaix. Not sure, he might, but the problem I would see is he isn't riding them at the moment (think he's done Flanders once, but not Roubaix) and they are races where you really need to know what's round the corner.
  • Everyone has different attributes.

    Usain Bolt for instance is a good short distance runner but he might not be able to run a marathon.

    Someone who runs the 1500m may not be fast over 100m.
  • Interesting read back in 2009....
    http://www.europeloton.com/2009/04/can- ... ubaix.html

    "The Roubaix course doesn't have any climbing, only long stretches of bone-jarring cobbles. If Cavendish can follow wheels until the end of the race and end up in a small group heading into the Roubaix Velodrome, he could use both his track skills and his sprinting prowess to upend the favorites, including Tom Boonen. Whether Cavendish will have the strength to resist the raw power of Boonen's Quick Step team though is still up for discussion."

    This has be dicussed a bit in Rick's "Top ten sprinters by wins" thread, Boonen and Cavendish aren't really the same sort of rider. Cavendish is a bunch sprinter, a bit like Cipollini or Petacchi where as Boonen is a classics rider who can sprint a bit, very much like Museeuw.

    the problem I would see is he isn't riding them at the moment (think he's done Flanders once, but not Roubaix) and they are races where you really need to know what's round the corner.

    I might be wrong but didn't he ride this years R-R and abandoned once the tough got tougher?
    ITS BY DOING WHAT EVER, THAT YOU BECOME WHOEVER!
  • I might be wrong but didn't he ride this years R-R and abandoned once the tough got tougher?

    Your right, he did start Paris Roubaix this year, but didn't finish. He also finished just over 15 minutes down at the Tour of Flanders this year. But that's it, that's his only experience of the two races.
  • calvjonescalvjones Posts: 3,850
    I might be wrong but didn't he ride this years R-R and abandoned once the tough got tougher?

    Your right, he did start Paris Roubaix this year, but didn't finish. He also finished just over 15 minutes down at the Tour of Flanders this year. But that's it, that's his only experience of the two races.

    I suspect he'd finish a lot more than 15mins down at next year's Ronde.

    Impossible to compare him with any other sprinters at the mo. But I have to say, riders like Thor are 'better'/classier to my mind as they have to rely on cunning, guile and guts far more than Cav, who is clearly a freak of nature*




    *but not in a Lance/Big Mig kinda way
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • I might be wrong but didn't he ride this years R-R and abandoned once the tough got tougher?

    Your right, he did start Paris Roubaix this year, but didn't finish. He also finished just over 15 minutes down at the Tour of Flanders this year. But that's it, that's his only experience of the two races.

    I'm guessing the Green Jersey and Rainbow stripes were more important so it's not worth breaking a bone on the off chance of doing well in a Classic.
    "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer
  • RichjRichj Posts: 240
    In his professional career has Cav ever won a race solo or from a small bunch? Not that I can remember but I wait to be corrected.

    Without doubt the best sprinter of his generation, possibly ever but talk of winning PR or Flanders is hard to imagine if he has not shown that sort of racing pedigree yet in his career.
  • cav is a very good rider indeed despite being a pure sprinter

    the guy delivers

    the end
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • moray_gubmoray_gub Posts: 3,328
    calvjones wrote:
    [

    Impossible to compare him with any other sprinters at the mo. But I have to say, riders like Thor are 'better'/classier to my mind as they have to rely on cunning, guile and guts far more than Cav, who is clearly a freak of nature*

    What you really mean is they are well slower than Cav so they have to rely on other ways to win, a few years back Thor was not the kind of rider he is now.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • calvjones wrote:
    I might be wrong but didn't he ride this years R-R and abandoned once the tough got tougher?

    Your right, he did start Paris Roubaix this year, but didn't finish. He also finished just over 15 minutes down at the Tour of Flanders this year. But that's it, that's his only experience of the two races.

    I suspect he'd finish a lot more than 15mins down at next year's Ronde.

    Impossible to compare him with any other sprinters at the mo. But I have to say, riders like Thor are 'better'/classier to my mind as they have to rely on cunning, guile and guts far more than Cav, who is clearly a freak of nature*




    *but not in a Lance/Big Mig kinda way


    +1
    ITS BY DOING WHAT EVER, THAT YOU BECOME WHOEVER!
  • calvjones wrote:
    I might be wrong but didn't he ride this years R-R and abandoned once the tough got tougher?

    Your right, he did start Paris Roubaix this year, but didn't finish. He also finished just over 15 minutes down at the Tour of Flanders this year. But that's it, that's his only experience of the two races.

    I suspect he'd finish a lot more than 15mins down at next year's Ronde.

    Impossible to compare him with any other sprinters at the mo. But I have to say, riders like Thor are 'better'/classier to my mind as they have to rely on cunning, guile and guts far more than Cav, who is clearly a freak of nature*




    *but not in a Lance/Big Mig kinda way


    +1 Couldn't have said it any better
    ITS BY DOING WHAT EVER, THAT YOU BECOME WHOEVER!
Sign In or Register to comment.