ToB - is the Dartmoor section of going the wrong way around?

jimwin

<troll/> As one who rides regularly in and around Dartmoor, I saw the stage 5 route and could not believe they're taking the easy way around - instead of Bovey Tracy, Widecombe, Ponsworthy, Dartmeet; the other way would have been much tougher and better for spectators at the Dartmeet, Ponsworthy and Widecombe climbs (25%, 30% and 25% respectively).

Maybe the organisers figured some riders might end up walking. Well tough; mere mortals do this section towards the end of one of the Dartmoor Devil routes. If you're going to include Dartmoor, at least do it properly. </troll>

Pross

I think cyclists treat hills like anglers treat the fish that got away. Ponsworthy would be a good inclusion but it is no more than 20%. Dartmeet is similar and not very long. Neither arr as hard as Constitution Hill last year and I have ridden both on 39 x 27 despite being old, unfit and overweight so I'd doubt the pros would be walking. I think it's good thag they have got a long climb included as there aren't that many on Dartmoor but would have been better later in the stage (trolling warning acknowledged ;-))

cougie

Just be glad they're not doing the hills you ride. Cos they'll make them look like anthills.

briantrumpet

The only slight shame is that it looks like what wind there is will be easterly - had it been in the west there would have been seriously fast long straight runs on the homeward half of the course. Whatever, it looks a cracker of a stage - just a shame I can't get the day of work to ride out to it and watch it - I had planned to go to Haytor and then back across to Exmouth (possibly via the Starcross ferry) for the finish.

bam49

I think the climb at Dartmeet is quite long - not to be sniffed at for sure... If they wanted it really tough they could have made them do the climb up from Ashburton to Holne Bridge, then Buckland on the moor and then Widdecombe...

jimwin

bam49 wrote:

I think the climb at Dartmeet is quite long - not to be sniffed at for sure... If they wanted it really tough they could have made them do the climb up from Ashburton to Holne Bridge, then Buckland on the moor and then Widdecombe...

Not to be sniffed at indeed. Done Ashburton etc, but not all in a single ride cos I live on the west side. Good for those on the SE side of the moor though.

As for Constitution Hill (Pross) - it's a 25% with the bonus of cobbles (and damp if I recall correctly), but not so long at only 300m. Dartmeet is 1Km at 25% and Widdecombe 1.5Km at 25% with neither relenting at any point.

Pross

Don't know Widecombe, will give it a go when next down there but I've done Dartmeet and Ponsworthy a few times. Hard enough for a fat bloke like me but the pros would sail up it. I wouldn't have thought the climb after the bridge at Dartmeet the way they are going will be a similar challenge. The biggest problem with the stage is all the climbing is too early on.

bam49

"Don't know Widecombe, will give it a go when next down there "
next time you are there, try the hills I mentioned from Ashburton . That is the start to the Tour of Dartmoor - which I think has the hardest first few miles of any sportive I have done, hardly any warm up & your are straight into 25% territory...

mroli

That's rubbish. I got up Porlock ok with a 34/26 - any pro would fly up there. Whatever the reason was for them not gong up there, it wasn't because they were worried about pros walking.

briantrumpet

... and they didn't hang around going up the 500ft and 25%s of Peak Hill last year after 70 miles of hard riding (although Bradley Wiggins was right at the back, taking it easy).

But let's remember that the ToB isn't the Tour of Dartmoor, or something that's designed to catch the riders out - sure, we want something mixed and demanding, but this stage also has some super-fast sections, and if the route just goes for all the hardest hills just for the sake of it, it would leave the riders short of juice for the other bits. Incidentally, the back-markers in that stage last year were a full one hour behind the organisers' ETAs, and that had slightly less climbing than this year's Devon stage, and was mostly in long drags rather than viciously sharp Dartmoor-type climbs.

Pross

joe2008 wrote:

so I'd doubt the pros would be walking

When they did Exmoor a few years back they went up the gentle toll road rather than risk having pros walking Porlock Hill with it's 1 in 3 hairpins.

Bollox - Porlock is nowhere near 1:3 at any point. These guys ride the likes of the Angliru, I don't think there is much in Britain that would have them walking unless the pace at the front gets too low or there are slippery cobbles. The hill they struggled the most on in my memory is Devil's Staircase but that was in the 80s with much higher gearing (too high in many cases).

Pross

I think if you look at mroli's blog you'll see he is in a very good position to compare the rrlative difficulties of Britain's toughest climbs.

The Milk Race that went up Devil's Staircase riders were using 42x24, they would be fine today with 39x27. Also many were amateur riders.

Weekend warriors regularly ride the likes of Porlock hill so why do you think pro racers would end up walking? The only time I've seen pros regularly walk is on races such as the Ronde when the road narrows and the speed at the back is too slow to stay upright. You only have to look at Cav who regularly struggles on 3rd cat climbs in the Tour sitting comfortably near the front to see where British climbs rank in the difficulty of pro racing!

Pross

Oh, and Russ was in a break on a Giro medium mountain stage from memory (struggled due to a bad crash).

vs

Every pro can climb Porlock Hill, that is, of course, beyond question.

However, from what I remember, it was more a case of the hill being after less than an hour of flat 30mph racing. The peleton would have been mostly all together and 150? elite cyclists hitting the second hairpin at roughly the same time would have caused a bottleneck down the very steep section to the first hairpin.

The pace could have been too slow at the back to have stayed upright on a 25% gradient while those ahead filtered around the corner, which is between 25 and 30%.

I think I remember them saying they didn't want to have cyclists 'uncliping'. This is where the 'walking' thing probably comes from.

mroli

Agreed, that seems to make a lot more sense - not so much that the riders can't get up the hill, rather that the course and the lead up to the hill would cause bunching and a bottleneck.

That wasn't quite the point you were making Joe2008? As Pross said - if you'd like to compare (some rather ropey) video footage of most of the steepest climbs in the UK - please do check out my blog http://www.100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com

I have seen video footage of the ToB going up Contitution Hill and seen a couple of "feet put down" - but that must have been a combination of reacting to other riders, cobbles and VERY wet conditions - perhaps that was a contributing factor to not going up Porlock - a streaming wet road would make things v difficult indeed.

Cheers

Pross

Yep that sounds sensible (apart from the ToB field is arounf 100 I believe). I watched on Constitution Hill in around 98 and they had exactly that issue despite being at the end of a stage that had gone over other 1st cat climbs. They climbed Constitution 3 times on a finishing circuit that year from memory and finished at the top.