Have Team Sky backed the wrong man?

onthefells

Genuine question...its been pretty apparent that Froome has been stronger than Wiggins for a lot of the tour. When he took the lead after the tt might he have won the Vuelta if he hadn't been riding for Wiggins?

Also what happens now is Wiggins still the leader despite being 26 secs behind Froome who is only 20 secs off the lead?

Some big decisions for Brailsford to make, does he upset the applecart and go witht he most likely winner????????????????

rebs

Short Answer no I don't think they have.

Question has only been raised in hindsight. Given Froome's previous form what shows that he would be riding out of his skin as he has?

Wiggins has been solid and I think it's fair to say that Froome is riding so well because of Wiggins performing as he has. I think it's been fair to say that it has been more likely Froome would be first to blow. Blowing on a climb like today is no supraise as it was simply an insane climb.

I just hope both Froome and Wiggins go out fighting to make it as hard as possible for Cobo for the remaining days.

oldwelshman

Did you ask the same questions when Astana had Armstrong in front of Contador in the tour couple of years back?
Do you think every team would change their team leader every time a dometique has a good ride?
What happens now? They are both still in with a small chance and now there will probably not be a team leader as such and they will try to use the one two to try to attack Geox and hopefully one of them can gain enough time to win.

Turfle

It would take a brave, and in my opinion, a crazy person to put Wiggins to work for a rider who usually loses time when there are two climbing stages in a row. The way the race was raced I don't see where - until now - a switch could have been made.

Tusher

No.

If, on the other hand, Froome was to adopt Spanish nationality (and he has form) then I would suggest that Sky should throw every man and the team bus behind him.

RichN95.

Yes. In future they should decide on all of their tactics after the race has happened. They really dropped the ball when they failed to look into the future.

verylonglegs

hindsight eh? Isn't it lovely?

mr_poll

It's a moot question.

Had they swapped after the TT and then Froome had a bad day (which could easily of happened or still happen given his form coming into the tour) then would you be starting a thread "Are Team Sky poor tacticians by swapping their team leader halfway through a GT"

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - Wiggins wasn't that far off after the TT you stay with Plan A unless Plan A implodes.

inkyfingers

If Froome and Wiggins had similar records in stage races and GTs then there would have been a case for changing leaders, they don't.

squired

Although Froome has apparently been afflicted with a blood infection/parasite for some time it is hard to judge him on recent form. Having said that, he always seems to have one or two really bad days and no doubt Sky will have had that in mind.

The fact is that Sky seem to be very keen on measuring things like power output from riders. As a result they will be very much aware of how both Wiggins and Froome (and every other rider in the squad) are capable of riding. Obviously there is the mental side too and I'm sure they have a good idea on that front. Sky seems to be a team that leaves nothing to chance, so if Froome is performing this well I'd imagine they were seeing results from his training to suggest that such a result would be capable.

The sad thing is that in this race the Sky boys have lost a few seconds here and there. Had they not messed up the time trial they may still have the lead. Had either Froome or Wiggins mopped up some bonus seconds it would also be different. Bradley did also seem to blow in the time trial, but then many are said to be describing this as the hardest Grand Tour they've ever done, so we should expect people to not be 100% every day.

pedalpower

I think they did back the wrong man. Even before the timetrial it was clear Froome was in exception form and the ITT just showed that Wiggins, while riding exceptionall well considering his injury and change of plans regarding the Vuelta, is not at peak form (not the form he had for the Dauphine or which we suspect he had for the Tour). You have to wonder if marketing plays a part in the decision - Wiggins is a household name and winning the Tour with him would help the sponsers much more than someone no-one's ever heard of. It also reminds me a bit of Wiggins insisting on riding the Madison with Cavendish in pursuit of a third gold and then Cavendish being furious because Wiggins had clearly bitten off more than he could chew but still wanted to pursue a personal goal of three gold medals. It worked out badly for the team then and has this time too. Perhaps this is too harsh though as selfishness is clearly also an attribute GC contenders need - look at Armstrong!

Gazzaputt

No.

calvjones

- I suspect Sky will get more coverage from a Brad podium than a Froome win.

- Froome will likely not be at Sky next year in any case

- If Brad is not already slightly huffed at Cav arriving, throwing him for Froome halfway through a Vuelta he tried really hard to recover for (rather than giving up the season) would permanently ruin his relationship with the team. So all that investment/tapping up wasted..

From the perspective of the last week, it's a question worth asking. But only from that perspective

timturpinfleck

Froome did not have the form of Wiggins going into the Vuelta and finished his last Grand Tour in 2009, so no they made the right decision to stick with Froome who is up there because of the work he's been doing for Wiggins. Yesterday's stage was a freak climb and one which we would not see in many Grand Tours. Team Sky are still the only other team with a realistic chance of winning this race and it will be interesting to see how Geox cope with leading the race as Wiggins is the only rider to have lead the race for more than 2 days.

pedalpower

Can't see Geox having too much difficulty leading the race - with Menchov, De la Feunte, sastre even

dave_1

Froome should have been allowed more freedom on Angliru yesterday..not forced into pace making. His strength has been evident 48hrs ago in stage 14..his boss was in agony following him

http://photos.grahamwatson.com/2011Race ... 21_StC645d

rick_chasey

Dave_1 wrote:

Froome should have been allowed more freedom on Angliru yesterday..not forced into pace making. His strength has been evident 48hrs ago in stage 14..his boss was in agony following him

http://photos.grahamwatson.com/2011Race ... 21_StC645d

Does it make that much difference on the Angrilu?

inkyfingers

pedalpower wrote:

It also reminds me a bit of Wiggins insisting on riding the Madison with Cavendish in pursuit of a third gold and then Cavendish being furious because Wiggins had clearly bitten off more than he could chew but still wanted to pursue a personal goal of three gold medals

I've made my feelings clear about who Sky should be riding for at the Vuelta but regarding the Olympics, it was Team GB's responsibility, not Wiggins to decide whether he should have ridden the madison. A good rider should always be keen to ride and win, there would be something wrong if as a current World Champion Wiggins had said he didn't want to ride it. Team GB either made a mistake in thinking he'd have the legs, or didn't have the balls to tell a big name rider that he wasn't riding.

You also need to bear in mind that Wiggins won gold at the Worlds Championships in all 3 events earlier that year so it wouldn't have seemed like an impossible task for him to do it at the Olympics.

It's no different to all those saying that Sky should have ridden for Froome, easy to say in hindsight.

thamacdaddy

You simply cannot ask this question as it's BS even in hindsight.

We all saw how Wiggins struggled with 2010 being made team leader. He has clearly got his head right this season and can handle big pressure and big expectations. Who's to say Froome could have handled the pressure of leading Sky through the Vuelta, knowing his team was working all out for him and knowing he had taken the lead from his known GC contender team leader. We will never know in truth and based on all they had to go on at the time Sky made the best call. Froome maybe performing now simply because he knows if he cracks it all isn't on him, he may have handled team leader just great and gone on to win.

Besides Sky still have two riders within a minute of top spot and might possibly manage 2/3 on the podium even if they don't overtake Cobo, impressive for a team widely derided here, even up to yesterday everyone was saying Nibali had it in the bag and now Sky have got rid of every GC contender bar two.

fredmac

mr_poll wrote:

It's a moot question.

Had they swapped after the TT and then Froome had a bad day (which could easily of happened or still happen given his form coming into the tour) then would you be starting a thread "Are Team Sky poor tacticians by swapping their team leader halfway through a GT"

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - Wiggins wasn't that far off after the TT you stay with Plan A unless Plan A implodes.

I think that you could argue that Plan A has imploded.
So what to do now?

Le Commentateur

Geox got their team tactics right yesterday, with Menchov policing the Sky duo and Sastre forcing the chase at the bottom of the climb.

Sky have the rest of this week, either to do something memorable or to sit back and be part of a procession to Madrid on Sunday and be 2 & 3 on the podium.

Cobo is surely going to try and put a lock on the standings on Thursday's stage by the look of the profile.

symo

No

And like wow, for using hindsight as the target.
Sky have not let this tour go yet. Lot of flat stages to come and when your strength is the mountains, Geox have a lot to do on the flat, especially when most of them like riding at the back of the peloton.

Not over yet.

Pross

Why are some people making it sound like Sky have had a disaster? 2nd and 3rd in a GT is something many teams would be grateful for and not many on here would have predicted it. You only have to look at comments on the Dark Horse thread to see that most people felt Wiggo would do well to make the top 10 on a GT with such a huge amount of climbing and anyone predicting Froome getting in the top 20 would have been laughed out of town as a deluded Sky fanboy! Both Froome and Wiggins are still within a minute of the lead, normally people would be saying that the race is wide open if it was that close with some tough stages remaining.

calvjones

fredmac wrote:

mr_poll wrote:

It's a moot question.

Had they swapped after the TT and then Froome had a bad day (which could easily of happened or still happen given his form coming into the tour) then would you be starting a thread "Are Team Sky poor tacticians by swapping their team leader halfway through a GT"

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - Wiggins wasn't that far off after the TT you stay with Plan A unless Plan A implodes.

I think that you could argue that Plan A has imploded.
So what to do now?

I suspect given the Angliru Sky's plan A may have been 'keep Brad on the podium'. If so, hardly an implosion.

symo

To be fair the old Saunier Duval effect was working in Cobo's favour. Unlike all other riders the climb didn't seem to trouble him.

Of course it could be that I am a big Wiggo fan or that Leohpaards don't change their spots.......................................

squired

I wonder if any of the remaining stages have stretches where there could be the classic Vuelta crosswinds?

With the time defecits the two Sky riders have there is still a chance of doing something. If Froome wins a stage and Cobo finishes on the same time, but not second or third, they would be on the same time. Wiggins could also go for a flyer in the final kilometer or two on a stage (as could Froome). I guess it is up to Sky now as to whether they would rather preserve their still very impressive podium positions or really go for it.

The final climb on Wednesday is only 6km, but is once again pretty steep and I'd be surprised if there are no time gaps between the top 3, especially with everyone now feeling the strain of being in the 3rd week of a grand tour.

thamacdaddy

symo wrote:

To be fair the old Saunier Duval effect was working in Cobo's favour. Unlike all other riders the climb didn't seem to trouble him.

Of course it could be that I am a big Wiggo fan or that Leohpaards don't change their spots.......................................

SD did change their spots though, or at least their kit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geox-TMC
Team name history
2004–2007 Saunier Duval-Prodir
2008 Saunier Duval-Scott
2008 Scott-American Beef
2009 Fuji-Servetto
2010 Footon-Servetto-Fuji
2011 Geox-TMC

PS I am not jumping to conclusions on Cobo though, he didn't look fresh as everyone keeps saying while climbing only on that little descent to the line. Also he was running smaller gear settings than the rest behind, not that this was the big difference but it worked for him it seems.

Yellow Peril

I think it makes for an exciting week. Surely there will be opportunities for the Sky duo to work Cobo over? He's going to have to chase both of them down.

mroli

Bear in mind that Cobo has Menchov (who has quietly got himself to 6th), Sastre, Duarte, De La Fuente, all riding well.

As well as Sky rode to finish 4th and 5th on the stage, Geox rode to 1st and 3rd.... This is very much their A team as well, whilst defo Sky's B team....

rubertoe

I think Geox problem will be trying to control the race on the flat - we all know that they can climb - but when the road is not going up will they be able to chase down all of the attacks and constantly ride on the ront for the 4/6 stages to come without getting tired -

The dont have any really big engines and Rabo and Leopard will still want to try and do something.

symo

Cobo needn't worry, he has the noted flatland specialists Sastre and Menchov to chase them down, oh wait no sorry......... the whole team spent most of the tour at back of the peloton.

Seriously he looked fresh, wasn't out of breath in the interviews and I am sure he was about to dance a little jig for an hour until the presentation of his red jersey interupted him.

Of course I could be biased being a Wiggo fan or that the DS of the 2008 team is involved or the fact that everyone in the peloton suffered apart from the winner. But hey I am baised.