Please help me identify this frame

southeast

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. New here.

I only have a couple of things to go on with identifying this frame.
There are NO details of frame manufacturer, I'm hoping someone might be able to put it together from these clues though.

This serial number on the BB


Columbus dropouts


And these 'heart' lugs


And here's the whole thing




Notice braze ons for mudguards and panniers, and the option of using caliper or canti brakes (drilled and braze ons). All of these point towards cyclocross/tourer but I have no idea what it is.
Not knowing isn't a massive problem, I'd just rather know.
When I got it it had really nice components so this makes me think it is something sweet under that nasty (hand) paint job.

Thanks.

Rodrego Hernandez

De Rosa use heart emblems in their lugs if that helps at all. Would assume that De Rosa also use Columbus fork ends.

southeast

Yeah, there are a few builders who do, it's something to do with being able to see how the solder for fixing the tubes is setting "flow windows". Derosa is one, but also Mercian. I also have them on a Jan Janssen Vitus frame.

I'll go down the derosa route to see if I can find anything about touring frames made by them.

I suppose the other option is a custom built frame, but the serial number would suggest otherwise!

ugo.santalucia

Built with Reynolds tubing is almost certainly a British frame... the thread on the BB will definitively rule out Italian manufacture.
Also, difficult to find Italian frames with braze ons for mudguards...

The orange colour might suggest a Holdsworth Audax/Touring... but that would be a very lucky find... whatever it is, I suggest you build it and ride it before you invest in a professional respray... you might find it "dead" and not worth the hassle. On the other hand you might find it great, in which case, who cares who built it?

God luck

southeast

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Built with Reynolds tubing is almost certainly a British frame... the thread on the BB will definitively rule out Italian manufacture.
Also, difficult to find Italian frames with braze ons for mudguards...

The orange colour might suggest a Holdsworth Audax/Touring... but that would be a very lucky find... whatever it is, I suggest you build it and ride it before you invest in a professional respray... you might find it "dead" and not worth the hassle. On the other hand you might find it great, in which case, who cares who built it?

God luck

Thanks, I think you might be on to something. I even thought I'd struck lucky and it was the same frame as this http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/holds ... tem-full-2 but the lugs are a bit different.
I'll build it up soon!
Thanks,
Doug

keef66

I'm liking the can of Red Stripe in the corner of the last pic. Every workshop should have one!

southeast

keef66 wrote:

I'm liking the can of Red Stripe in the corner of the last pic. Every workshop should have one!

Indeed, and the countless cups of tea. I also feel terrible for the environment with the amount of latex gloves I go through, but then it's better than feeling the wrath of my girlfriend when I inevitably stain every sink in the house with oil..

southeast

Update!
Not sure if this changes anything but it has this (inner cable only so stops at each end) cable routing in the top tube.




And the 'TI18' (I think) stamped on the dropout.

mz__jo

The drillings in the fork crown and seat stay bridge are probably for the mudguards, not necessarily for the brakes. The style looks more 1980's, not modern. Curious using Columbus lugs with Reynolds tubing, more the sort of thing you would expect from a small frame builder than one of the big names. A number of tourists in the 80's used to fit Mafac calipers (for the additional mudguard clearance and, we used to think, for better braking with big tyres).
The type of 531 tubing on the label might help put a date to it (or the style of the label).
The style of the seat stay junction and the internal cable routing might well give a clue to the origins.

Pseudonym

the 'chequer' detailing on the top tube and forks might suggest Peugeot, as might the Reynolds tubes. Columbus dropouts were fairly ubiquitous among decent frame builders in the 80s & 90s, so I doubt if there is much of a clue there.

rolf_f

mz__jo wrote:

The type of 531 tubing on the label might help put a date to it (or the style of the label).

My 1990 Dawes has a similar 501 label. This bike doesn't look that far from 1990ish to me.

thel33ter

I can't offer much advice as to what it is, but someone on www.retrobike.co.uk may.

mz__jo

I have identified the date range for that style of Reynolds sticker from the Reynolds site.
Here is the link: http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pd ... istory.pdf

This gives the tubing date as 1989 - 1994, a bit younger than I had thought.
Hope that helps a bit.
Cheers Jo

markos1963

Is it me or does that Reynolds sticker look too new/good condition in comparison to the rest of the bike?

rafletcher

Looks to me to be cyclocross bike - I can't think on (m)any tourers which feature internal cable routings.

mz__jo

rafletcher wrote:

Looks to me to be cyclocross bike - I can't think on (m)any tourers which feature internal cable routings.

Not necessarily so; Raleigh hybrids of the period had internal routing (of hideous crudity) on frames of less quality than this. It all depends on who built it and who for (but hybrid and probably also cross frames were going over to unicrown fork crowns). It could be that the forks are not original. Did cross frames of this period have guard eyes? I thought that was a more recent development to increase the marketing possibilities.
Incidentally, as I read the situation, that label means 531 main triangle only. Normally replacement stickers were only made available to builders by Reynolds (which doesn't guarantee that some didn't get stuck on non-Reynolds frames). Asit is forks and rear triangle could be anything.

southeast

markos1963 wrote:

Is it me or does that Reynolds sticker look too new/good condition in comparison to the rest of the bike?

Yeah, not sure it is original. I think the frame's been repainted so that sticker could be from ebay or something.
It definitely doesn't look like it's been removed and reapplied.

With regards to the forks being non-original, the mounts for canti's are the same front and rear but then they could be non-original themselves or just be a very generic style. Maybe that's a route I should investigate.

Thanks for all your help, everyone. perhaps it's destined to remain a mystery bike.

arlowood

Hi there

Could be a Mercian from the early 90's

Up 'til last year I owned a Mercian Audax which I bought from new in 1996. The attached Flickr photos show that it has the same Reynolds 531 label and very similar heart shaped lugs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39387382@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39387382@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39387382@N ... hotostream

I would contact Mercian with the frame number and see if it corresponds to any of their early 90's sequences.

balthazar

I'll throw Argos into the mix, simply because I knew one such with common features: 90's built, holed lugs (those in your pictures don't look hand cut, and neither were the ones one the bike I have in mind: I guess some manufacturer sold them pre-cut), teardrop seatstay caps, internal cables, and cantilever brakes.

Maybe the serial number is from the police?

Anyway: is that a crack on the left seatstay cap?

southeast

balthazar wrote:

I'll throw Argos into the mix, simply because I knew one such with common features: 90's built, holed lugs (those in your pictures don't look hand cut, and neither were the ones one the bike I have in mind: I guess some manufacturer sold them pre-cut), teardrop seatstay caps, internal cables, and cantilever brakes.

Maybe the serial number is from the police?

Anyway: is that a crack on the left seatstay cap?

Thanks mate. Will have a look at the 'crack' in the morning but I'm pretty sure it's a lift in the paint. The frame was literally sat in someone's garden for a few years. The chain was a solid piece of rust. Amazingly enough the Dura Ace chainset looks brand new (apart from internal rust!), testament to the quality.

southeast

arlowood wrote:

Hi there

Could be a Mercian from the early 90's

Up 'til last year I owned a Mercian Audax which I bought from new in 1996. The attached Flickr photos show that it has the same Reynolds 531 label and very similar heart shaped lugs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39387382@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39387382@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39387382@N ... hotostream

I would contact Mercian with the frame number and see if it corresponds to any of their early 90's sequences.

That does indeed look very similar. I'll try and get in touch with them, thanks a lot. (BTW, your bike is beautiful!)

rolf_f

markos1963 wrote:

Is it me or does that Reynolds sticker look too new/good condition in comparison to the rest of the bike?

I wouldn't assume that. The bikes been left outside and paint with red pigment fades horribly in the sun. Besides, why bother to put new stickers on a knackered paintjob? Not impossible but just seems unlikely!

southeast

So I checked with Mercian and it's not one of theirs. Fair play to them for replying to me though, good guys.