So, Ullrich
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Simple. By admitting to doping that means he was previously lying when he denied doping. As a proven liar, therefore, one would have to view the truthfulness of his doping confession with suspision. So,he must be lying when he admits doping, and is therefore clean.0
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Yes, a bit uncomfortable with the "I'll confess years later". It'a bit like Ronnie Biggs saying sorry for the train robbery after spending the money he blagged.
Still, it's better than pretending nothing happened. But there are confessions and confessions, we'll see if he names everyone. He's still pals with Kloden I gather.0 -
ratsbeyfus wrote:Simple. By admitting to doping that means he was previously lying when he denied doping. As a proven liar, therefore, one would have to view the truthfulness of his doping confession with suspision. So,he must be lying when he admits doping, and is therefore clean.
A fine piece of logic sir!!You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Kléber wrote:
Still, it's better than pretending nothing happened. But there are confessions and confessions, we'll see if he names everyone. He's still pals with Kloden I gather.
Yeah, my answer is not the most helpful one but, it depends what he confesses to if he confesses. So, a bit difficult to say how i would view what he might say.0 -
Jez mon wrote:ratsbeyfus wrote:Simple. By admitting to doping that means he was previously lying when he denied doping. As a proven liar, therefore, one would have to view the truthfulness of his doping confession with suspision. So,he must be lying when he admits doping, and is therefore clean.
A fine piece of logic sir!!
Ah the Armstrong defence...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Ulrich doped?
Pass me my smelling salts.0 -
ddraver wrote:Jez mon wrote:ratsbeyfus wrote:Simple. By admitting to doping that means he was previously lying when he denied doping. As a proven liar, therefore, one would have to view the truthfulness of his doping confession with suspision. So,he must be lying when he admits doping, and is therefore clean.
A fine piece of logic sir!!
Ah the Armstrong defence...
Just imagine how much more time Lance (mpbuh) may have won his tours by if he didn't have to contend with all those blasted dopers! I'm sure he'll be delighted by the news.0 -
Some big boys did it and ran away.
Though given his origins I guess that's not all that far off the mark.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Should keep quiet.
We all know he did it. Unless he goes all Landis, and he absolutely won't, there's no value.
You get the impression, true or otherwise, that he just wants to be liked - and this is a way he is trying to get that back. It won't work.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:Should keep quiet.
We all know he did it. Unless he goes all Landis, and he absolutely won't, there's no value.
You get the impression, true or otherwise, that he just wants to be liked - and this is a way he is trying to get that back. It won't work.
Not sure I agree with you there, I'd like him more if he owned up and said exactly what he'd done and why, Millar style, rather than pretended he'd done nothing wrong.
Whether he names names or not is another aspect and I suspect he won't but he can at least be honest about what HE did.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Well duhhhh !
Biggest non- story this year ?0 -
Jez mon wrote:ratsbeyfus wrote:Simple. By admitting to doping that means he was previously lying when he denied doping. As a proven liar, therefore, one would have to view the truthfulness of his doping confession with suspision. So,he must be lying when he admits doping, and is therefore clean.
A fine piece of logic sir!!
Are we starting to get in to Donald Rumsfeld country here-
" There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."
I think this sums up most Doping related cycling issues.
One more for the road-
"I don't know what the facts are but somebody's certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know, and make sure he knows what they know that he may not know."
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
If he doped then I'd like it if he made it public. Truthiness and all that. Better still if he says why he doped, Millar-style.
Plus, it would add to the feeling I get that few riders of the late 90s / early 00s were riding clean. Or were they?0 -
ddraver wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Should keep quiet.
We all know he did it. Unless he goes all Landis, and he absolutely won't, there's no value.
You get the impression, true or otherwise, that he just wants to be liked - and this is a way he is trying to get that back. It won't work.
Not sure I agree with you there, I'd like him more if he owned up and said exactly what he'd done and why, Millar style, rather than pretended he'd done nothing wrong.
Whether he names names or not is another aspect and I suspect he won't but he can at least be honest about what HE did.
Because he wasn't properly rumbled, he got implicated and paid it to go away, I, and I imagine many others don't think of the juice when they hear Ullrich. They see a slightly large pink jersey looking angry pedalling a huge gear.
We all know he doped, but the way he went means you don't think of that immediately. An admission would change that.
It's like Riis. We all knew he doped. But when he said it, it became all we could think about.0 -
I just don't see how likely it is that a non doper could beat a doped rider at the top level.
Differences between top athletes are measured in tiny fractions - so by my thinking - he's beaten proven dopers - so therefore.....
TBH I'd assumed he'd got busted at some point over his career. If I look back on my Cycling magazines - just about every cover rider of his era has been done for it. Rife.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:They see a slightly large pink jersey looking angry pedalling a huge gear.
Wasn't that a movie? "Ullrich. The Fat and the Furious"'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
I think he should own up for his own good - even though we all know it just confessing is going to make it easier for him to move on. He should just have bitten the bullet at the time.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Anyone who as a teenager on an East German sports development program who wakes up up before a ride to find the house is devoid of cereal so instead eats two litres of icecream deserves to be liked."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
In Germany right now the general public's level of cynicism towards cycling is incredibly high - any pro cyclist is already immediately associated with doping. I don;t think he has much to lose0
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calvjones wrote:ddraver wrote:Well, still don't agree with you. When I hear "Ulrich", I hear "Doper"...
When I hear Millar/Riis at least it's "Doper trying to do the right thing"
Funny. For me Riis = hypocrite.
I did nt say they were doing a good job...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
He just don't see what he has to gain, unless he's become a tortured soul. Just leave it well alone. The general consensus was he has a murky past (as do all the riders of the same era), but do we really need details/heartfelt confessional? What would it acheive exactly?0
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ShockedSoShocked wrote:Anyone who as a teenager on an East German sports development program who wakes up up before a ride to find the house is devoid of cereal so instead eats two litres of icecream deserves to be liked.
SoS where ya get that story..it's a good'n'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0 -
It would help break the omerta, it would send a message to young neo_pros that doing is not the way to live your life, but most of all, it is just being honest and truthful. If we want to clean up our sport then surely it is better to be honest about where we re starting from rather than having a lord of vague and shadowy assumptions...
It all depends on what he would say though I admit...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
josame wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:Anyone who as a teenager on an East German sports development program who wakes up up before a ride to find the house is devoid of cereal so instead eats two litres of icecream deserves to be liked.
SoS where ya get that story..it's a good'n
His biography - German only though I have a friend from Cologne who's read it so provided me with a few choice excerpts!"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
As a product of the East German sports development system it would be reasonable to assume that he was doped without a lot of choice in the matter before he turned pro and probably would not have had any problem continuing in the same direction. (He probably would have had serious problems changing his preparation). It would be nice to know. It would be good for him to clear his head as well. The big problem that i can see is that he might well not have known exactly what he has taken or even thought to pose the question. Giving his body to science might serve a more useful purpose.0
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Of the present peloton, Jens is in the same boat as a former East German rider (the last?). Maybe he'll wait until Jens retires.
Or maybe not, as Jens will be the first 50 year old to ride the Tour.0