Shimano through the ages cross compatibility

Anonymous

I have just picked up a brand new (to me) 2nd hand bike with Shimano Ultegra 2001 full groupset (Durace rear cassette and new BB) on my bike, which worked fantastic for the 1st 20 miles, but now doesn't change down perfectly (need to change down 2 for it to jump, then back up 1).

It also makes a funny 'ping' sound every now and then. Its definitely not a clunking with the pedals, but almost like a submarine in films creaks and groans every now and then, as does my bike.

Anyway, seeing as it is all about 10 years old, every now and then I see something in the For Sale which seems like a reasonable excuse to spend some money making it better.

So my questions are thus:

Are all Ultegra/Durace cross/age compatible?

Is the gear change issue easy to solve? - from the looks of how clean this bike was when I bought it, there is a good chance it was totally dismantled and reassembled, is it gear cable tensions or something?

What is the difference between a "long cage" and "short cage" derailleur?

What might the 'ping' be?

Finally - my brother used to work in a bike shop and he says when changing components, you have to do them all at once, as the cogs and chains "marry" with time. I.e newer cogs and older chains and vice versa will slip.
Is this true/still the case?

Thanks for any help. So many questions!

keef66

If you replace chains when they are just 0.75% worn you can usually get through 3 or 4 chains before you have to replace the cassette. If you allow a chain to wear beyond 1% then it's likely to wear the cassette too, and a newly fitted chain will then skip under power.

Gear changing issue is likely to be a simple case of adjusting the cable tension slightly using the barrel adjuster on the frame of at the rear mech.

Long cage / short cage refers to the amount of chain slack it can accommodate. Take the difference between the number of teeth on the chainrings (eg 50-36 = 14) and add this to the difference between largest and smallest sprocket (eg 25-12 = 13) to give a total eg 27 teeth in this instance. Short cage mechs look neater but have a finite capacity; somebody else will be along to tell you how much.

(I have a long cage cos I have a triple so the difference is 43!)

Anonymous

Sweet that clears those ones up. Guess i'll get counting the teeth (or is it written?).

So that leads me onto the age/cross compatibility.

Its running 2*9 (not sure of the spacings), which is ideal (I think in a perfect world my commuter would be 1*11, but I only get to have 1 bike) and the setup is Ultegra 2001. Will it be happy with brand new (or even just newer) bits?

Monkeypump

coriordan wrote:

It also makes a funny 'ping' sound every now and then. Its definitely not a clunking with the pedals, but almost like a submarine in films creaks and groans every now and then, as does my bike.

coriordan wrote:

What might the 'ping' be?

You obviously have an Ultegra groupset with the sonar option.

Anonymous

Monkeypump wrote:

coriordan wrote:

It also makes a funny 'ping' sound every now and then. Its definitely not a clunking with the pedals, but almost like a submarine in films creaks and groans every now and then, as does my bike.

coriordan wrote:

What might the 'ping' be?

You obviously have an Ultegra groupset with the sonar option.

haha. Ok so its more like a creaking then a "ping"....I guess my point what that it doesn't seem to have any correlation to my pedalling. It just happens when it feels like it.

pinno

Sure you have'nt got a chainlink pin that is too far out on the wheel side? Pings, if its only slightly out of alignment, especially on an old chain. If the 'ping' is regular, bear in mind one pedal stroke is not one chain length, then look for a dodgy pin or dodgy link. - Get a new chain for all its worth, 'cos you could wear out jockey wheels, teeth etc Get as slim a chain as the cassette will tolerate and maybe eliminate that jumping.

There have been significant changes to the profile of the cassettes sprockets. They are the funny profiles you get on the sprockets. I wonder if that has had an effect.

Creaks - water ? Take the cassette to bits. Re-assemble in immacualte condition with the sligtest film of bearing grease - 'butte'r both sides of the spacers before reassembly (keep it very very clean) - helps keep water out of the cassette. Check chainring bolts for creaks and groans and also sealed hubs can let in water especially if they are old. I dunno, i'm a Campag man but i have found common to all modern indexing systems that if you don't clean it regularly, they jsut don't run smoothly. Sorry if i repeated any of what was said in other replies.

oysterkite

The general assumption is that most shimano cassettes will work with most shimano shifters, obviously with the same number of gears (the spacing is the same) and that the rear mech is less important as it simply replicates the movement of the shifter. However early ultegra shifters need the correct rear mech (due to the parellellogram and the highly precise indexing) If this is not the case then you get the shifting patterns you describe. (i know this having fitted 600 series (first generation ultegra) sti's with another shimano mech (didnt work perfectly) Once i fitted the correct rear mech ( ebay)it changed perfectly.

velobase.com will tell you which rear mech matches your shifters

and Sheldon Brown describes the early Ultegra compatability issues is more detail

Hope this helps[/url]