Do I really need carbon?

Logic

Im a very keen cyclist and looking to upgrade from my trek 1.2 and only really wanna spend upto £1500 max

so looking at whats out there it seems that shimano 105 groupo is the set most common but that as im not a racer or even in a club do i really need the stiffness of carbon against a well made aluminium frame?

obviously people going to mention titanium in there to or even a steel frame but im still after something a little racey looking if you get me.

what am i missing with the carbon?

trek 2.1 - £900
terk madone 4.5 - £1800

is it really worth the double price tag

StillGoing

Why does it have to be Trek? There are cheaper carbon frames out there.

daviesee

Logic wrote:

trek 2.1 - £900
terk madone 4.5 - £1800

is it really worth the double price tag

You will probably find that there is more to the price hike than just the frame. Are the groupsets the same?
Which brings us to........Why not just get a new frame?

You don't have to buy a complete bike. You may want to though

maddog 2

I've got two roadies - one ti and one carbon. The ti is lovely but the carbon is faster. If I had to have just one bike for everything I'd probably go ti I think.

Not a fan of alu. Maybe there are nice alu frames out there but all the ones I've ridden are some distance from the ride of ti and carbon.

As said, I'd buy a good value ti frame (VN, Enigma maybe) and transfer the parts across, upgrading as the budget allows.

Logic

first answer is I really like the trek madone looks - not everything i know but sure people choose bikes over colours and things like that same as with cars.

the 2.1 and madone 4.5 both use shimano 105 comps but i agree im sure some of the price is in the comps as well as the frame.

I want a this bike to be my sunday best and keep my 1.2 with the mud guards on for rubbish wet weather.

I think like normal advice is i need to try a Ti and a carbon and see the difference myself - just most LBS only let you take for a spin round the block and not a reasonable ride to get a good feel???

also how many miles can a carbon cope with - could i still be riding it in 10 years doing 4000 miles a year?

Herbsman

If you need to ask, then yes. The most expensive carbon you can afford.

careful

I'm with maddog2 here :

If I had to have just one bike for everything I'd probably go ti I think.

I have two bikes with a carbon frame and a Van Nicholas Ti. The carbon ones give the most lovely responsive ride but I do worry about damaging them. The Ti (now 5 years old) still looks like new (despite a spectacular crash) and will go on for ever giving a sporty but comfortable ride. All the aluminium bikes I have ridden shook my bones without seeming nearly as responsive as the carbon jobs - although I did have a Kinesis Racelight tk that wasnt too bad.

Keith1983

I know some people are gona hate me for this but I have a Claud Butler Vicenza which is Alu with carbon fork and stays. I like the ride very much. I haven't ridden something fully carbon, but I dare say it isn's as responsive as something carbon but I do rate the ride quality and it's reasonably light. I've not really looked but are there any Ti framed bikes out there with carbon forks and stays? I think that would be a great combination.

shane r

Logic wrote:

what am i missing with the carbon?

is it really worth the double price tag

Yes. Time to let the moths out of the billfold.

Logic

im really thinkingof a trek madone 4.5 and seen them for £1500 which is in the budget.

just finding somewhere who will let me test ride or even hire one is hard - even my local trek concept store dont have demo bikes in the 4 series but says they do in the 5 series and then tried to get to to have one of those after i already told them it was £1000 over budget.

im suprised its so hard for shops to see the logic in hiring out bikes for the weekend - how do i know il even like it and £1500 on a bike is alot for me. ( not the richest in the world )

shane r

There is such an array of really good carbon bikes on offer within your budget. You sure you don't want to look further afield?

Ribble, Felt, Focus, Cube, Boardman, etc just to name a few

the Cyclescheme limit of £1000 means that most bike makers have a model aimed at that market. Top one of those up with £500 more on upgrades and you could end up with a very good bike indeed.

Crankbrother

If the poor guy wants a trek leave him be ... It's likely way better than boardman, ribble or cube bikes ... Def. on par with a Spesh or likely even a 'dale these days ...

Buying cheapish carbon will get you just that, and won't give much return on your cash ...

An alu. 'dale, bmc, cervelo or similar will be a better ride than a low end carbon model, especially when you'd likely get a better finishing kit for your money so you can see and feel the difference at all the contact points ...

Logic

is the madone 4.5 classed as a low end carbon -

not saying im stuck on the idea of the madone and would like at other models its just im on a trek right now and happy with it - better the devil right.

i was thinking about an alu BMC but again only on looks really

StillGoing

I started off with a Trek 1.5 and having sold my R1 had a wad burning a hole in my pocket. I thought nothing better to spend it on than buying a decent bike. I looked at off the shelf models from several manufacturers but then looked into the cost of having a bespoke bike built. I had always been told to buy the best frame I could afford and add what I could. I set a budget for the frame and what it would leave me for components. My frame choice wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea but I like it. I haven't skimped on the components but I have compromised such as having alu bars instead of carbon and my rims (Mavic Cosmic Carbone) were bought second hand at half the price of new ones. All in I shelled out a fair whack but I'm happy. I don't have any moments of thinking I could have spent the money on something else. In 3 years I'll do it again with no expense spared but all this bike will need at some stage is a change from compact to double and a spare set of rims.

SO the short of what I'm saying is just go for it. You've surely done all the read ups and worked out the advantages and disadvantages of each frame material so it's just down to cost.

tenor

if you want a decent road bike for 1500 it probably has to be carbon and there are plenty of chices. Good Ti and even steel framed bikes are a bit dearer, although Condor do a really nice steel framed bike for that money.

rolf_f

tenor wrote:

if you want a decent road bike for 1500 it probably has to be carbon and there are plenty of chices. Good Ti and even steel framed bikes are a bit dearer, although Condor do a really nice steel framed bike for that money.

You can get hand made steel for less than £1500.

Logic

I think there are so much choice out there and so many people have their own opinions i think maybe its down to personal choice within reason.

think im more confused now - lol

moonshine

Simple no BS answer...... No, you don't need Carbon.

I've a carbon Ridley Dean TT bike, a carbon Felt F3 road race bike, an alloy m5 stumpjumper FSR MTB and. £400 fixed gear steel kona paddy wagon for commuting & winter training.

Guess what I ride the most? My cheapest one.... The steel Kona, and I love it!

My next bike will be something classic & steel, probably a Colnago master...

Thin steel can be really pretty...

Logic

ok so looking at the canny CAAD 10 im impressed - would this be a better bet than a simular priced carbon madone then?

kfinlay

Logic wrote:

ok so looking at the canny CAAD 10 im impressed - would this be a better bet than a simular priced carbon madone then?

No-one can tell you this, you have to try to get some test rides and find out for yourself mate. With different geometries and frame materials there's loads of choice and opinion that go with them. If it helps try to figure out what you like and don't like about your existing bike then take it from there. Try the Madone 5 series as it won't be too different from the 4. Try other bikes too and hopefully you'll build up a bit of knowledge to help you understand what you want.

Don't be long now that the sales have started

Crankbrother

Logic wrote:

ok so looking at the canny CAAD 10 im impressed - would this be a better bet than a simular priced carbon madone then?

YES ... A million times YES!!! ... No longer got the 'Handmade in USA' cache but the pinnacle of something, rather than the lower end of something else ...

It's like buying a good bottle of wine rather than cheap champagne ...

porker33

Here is my experience....between trek ali & cf bikes.....

I came on to this forum a couple of years ago, when i was looking to get back into road cycling to ask for advice.

I had narrowed my choice down to either a trek 1.9, black ali with ultegra, or a madone 5.2 oclv (made in usa) with Ultegra.

The madone was effectively twice the price of the 1.9. Everyone told me to buy the madone if you can afford it...

I went to the LBS, rode the 1.9 first, liked it, struck a deal and bought it without riding the Madone..

Happy,with the 1.9, but i still had the madone itch to scratch in the back of my mind, a year after buying the 1.9, I saw a good deal on an OCLV 5.2, bought that and sold the 1.9......For a while I was ridng both bikes back to back.

What I can tell you is that I had the bike set up the same, the madone was slightly more comfortable than the ali 1.9 and as it was a tad stiffer, it felt more responsive when accelerating. Both of those factors, by maybe 10-15% (hard to tell).

The point being, there was a marginal improvement for double the expenditure....I still have the madone and really like it.
In hind sight I had to try the carbon bike, but if i still had the 1.9, i could also use that as a winter bike, I didn't use the madone for a few months. I would say the ali is the better all round bike to use, but the carbon is better as a sunday best bike.

We are all different, but if I had a Trek 1.2 to use all the time, i would have to get another brand for the sunday bike to make it feel special, I also bought the last year of OCLV made in usa on a 5.2, I wouldn;t buy the TCT for the same £££.

For the money you are spending....I would be inclined to look at a Cube, they seem to offer good value for well finished bikes, with reasonable deals on ali &CF at this price point.

Logic

thanks porker I think you hit the nail on the head there - comparing the 2 materials and coming up with the answer of not a massive difference to reflect the cost -

i have so many doubts with carbon and the life is one and i dont wanna pay all this money and be worried to ride - I think im going to find somewhere that will let me ride a couple of different bikes and then try the CAAD10 and see how that feels.

think thats maybe the best idea.

porker33

Caad 10 is a good bike, but geometry is more "racey" compared to the TREKs you mentioned.You will be more stretched out on the caad.

That may or may not suit you, as you say ride it to see what fits and is comfortable.

Logic, don't forget I was comparing the better OCLV carbon as well, which is no longer available on the "lesser" madones.

Logic

porker ye the 4.5 is TCT so that isnt even as good so the 4.5 may not be any real defference maybe??

im finding it hard to find somewhere that has a demo bike in the lower madones or tarmac to try and aint yet had answers on CAAD10 demos - why is this so hard.......do they not want us to test ride our investments

BBH

caad 10 is a great bike and has got the write-ups to prove it. I dont own one but am seriously considering the investment atm. Will agree with all others re: riding it as geoms are very different on very different bikes.

Have you considered a canyon?? They are also good value but a lack of a lbs/dealer means you need to know what u want wrt size/geom. In particular the ultimate al got a good write up in this months cycling +

What caad 10 model are you looking at??

btw: dont get sucked into the 'must have carbon - its bound to be better argument' Been there done that and lost!! :?

Logic

I was thinking the 105 groupo as that seems to be whats on the other bikes but I also like the idea of the sram rival for the 1:1 actuation as used that on MTB in past but also the ultegra looks good with the mavic rims in the black and green.....

I just wonder whether peoples fears of lower end carbon comes from the early days of carbon when it was prone to breaking and if dropped thats it, compared to todays carbon with higher modulus and "infinite fatigue life" ( if you say so )

the canyon does look good and if I was looking for MTB id be really interested as the fit is not quite as important ( to a point )

can any1 recommend a store tht has a good demo range that is happy to let you have a go??

Essex Man

Where do you live?

Logic

I live in northampton but i would travel to the right shop

Logic

any1 riden the Giant TCR 0 ?? iv got a giant anthem MTB and thats awesome - so much choice arhhhhh hhhh h h hh h :? :?

Essex Man

I can recommend Epic Cycles up in Worcestershire from the point of view of stocking several manufacturers and having and extensive test fleet which you can take out for a good long test ride and get a decent bike fit done. I've made the (long) journey and bought a bike from them in the past.

Finding a bike that you really like the look of helps too. A lot of bikes look OK on the net but up close I've actually found them a bit disappointingly cheap looking.

I like Giants (have an Al one) - quality frames and nice looking bikes but they are really at the top of the price range these days for some reason.