I score the Tour

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited July 2011 in Pro race
7.8 out of 10.

Very good edition. It lost a 0.2 for wasting the 2nd last Sunday with a flat stage.

It was unfortunate that Wiggins and Horner crashed out, but in a way, I think the reduction of people who would be riding for the overall might have improved the racing.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Some context in the marking system would be good.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Some context in the marking system would be good.

    yes

    what were the scores for

    2003
    1995
    1989
    1987


    2005
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    2003 - 6.5
    1995 - I can't remember anything remarkable about it, so hard to score
    1989 - 9.8
    1987 - 7.5
    2005 - 6.2

    Nothing would have scored this high since 89.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    iainf72 wrote:
    2003 - 6.5
    1995 - I can't remember anything remarkable about it, so hard to score
    1989 - 9.8
    1987 - 7.5
    2005 - 6.2

    Nothing would have scored this high since 89.

    2005 6.2!

    more like 2.6!

    what about 2006 and 7?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    best tour since 89?

    hmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmm


    maybe....... yeah
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    I have 89 at 8.5 and this one at 8.0

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :P
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    ok giro 2010 vs tour 89?

    giro 2010 vs tour 2011?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    8.5 for me, been a great tour on a number of different levels The only negatives were the number of GC contenders we lost early on and the fact that not a lot happened in the Pyrenees.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok giro 2010 vs tour 89?

    giro 2010 vs tour 2011?

    The 2010 Giro was very good, but it gets overrated. It was won by Basso grinding it up huge climbs slightly quicker than the others.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok giro 2010 vs tour 89?

    giro 2010 vs tour 2011?

    Giro 2010 = 9.5

    The thing with the 10 Giro was there was a lot going on. You had the carnage of the first few days with a lot of changes, the amazing white roads stage, the massive escape etc etc.

    This years Tour was good, but didn't have that level of intrigue. If you looked at the underlying story until the final week, not much really happened. That's also what made 89 so great. It wasn't just the final result, it was what happened on the way there.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • samiam
    samiam Posts: 227
    How could the 89 tour be better?

    10/10 for that

    This year 9/10.. it was superb.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    iainf72 wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok giro 2010 vs tour 89?

    giro 2010 vs tour 2011?

    Giro 2010 = 9.5

    The thing with the 10 Giro was there was a lot going on. You had the carnage of the first few days with a lot of changes, the amazing white roads stage, the massive escape etc etc.

    This years Tour was good, but didn't have that level of intrigue. If you looked at the underlying story until the final week, not much really happened. That's also what made 89 so great. It wasn't just the final result, it was what happened on the way there.

    I would have giro 2010 slighty better race than this one but less important historically

    giro 2010 8.2 vs tour 2011 8.0 but tour gets a .2 boost because its the tour AND a podium finisher had to do a ride from a tactically difficult situation

    basically Andy demonstrated that we are in a post supertrain age but not a return to some mythical golden age

    taking a big risk with the long range attack on GC can work!

    thats what this tour has demonstrated and will perhaps be its legacy

    the Giro 2010 race was more entertaining because of the strada and that buts not like this tour was boring...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok giro 2010 vs tour 89?

    giro 2010 vs tour 2011?

    Giro 2010.
    Only one mediocre mountain stage, but virtually all the flatter stages either kicked off or had huge drama.
    The 2011 Tour had one so so mountain stage and one dud. Some excellent intermediate stages, but one or two real snoozefests.

    Iain has it pegged, but I'd go 9.25 - 8.6666 in favour of the Giro! :)

    Certainly, this has been the best Tour of the decade! :P (really, since 89/98)
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    ok giro 2010 vs tour 89?

    giro 2010 vs tour 2011?

    Giro 2010.
    Only one mediocre mountain stage, but virtually all the flatter stages either kicked off or had huge drama.
    The 2011 Tour had one so so mountain stage and one dud. Some excellent intermediate stages, but one or two real snoozefests.

    Iain has it pegged, but I'd go 9.25 - 8.6666 in favour of the Giro! :)

    Certainly, this has been the best Tour of the decade! :P (really, since 89/98)

    slightly farcical element to 98 thou despite seeing ullrich crack on galibier while pantani rides off
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    What would you do to the parcours to improve things?

    I'd stick a mountain TT in...........love those guys........maybe even Andy could ride it well.
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Bronzie wrote:
    What would you do to the parcours to improve things?

    Ban time trials and move all the other stages to Italy.

    Seriously though, I thought this year's route was pretty good. The two uphill sprints in week one, the two downhill finishes earlier this week. The only thing I hate are the stages with one big mountain in the middle and nothing else... I know people liked Thor winning over the Aubisque, but I find that kind of thing a bit underwhelming.
  • bipedal
    bipedal Posts: 466
    Great to see the return of Tour mountain stages when GC riders do stuff before the foot of the final climb...
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,462
    I can't see how you can score the 1989 Tour so high when it was completely lacking treachery involving team mates. That adds at least 1.5 to any GT.
  • Road Ace
    Road Ace Posts: 16
    :D

    This years tour was excellent. Great entertainment. Gripping finale, heros (Tommy ), Baddies (Contador), good guys (Evans & A Schleck), Nutters (Hoogerland, Roy, FDJ) New blood (Roland), Sprinters (Cav v Everyone), Norway!

    Nothing decided until the last 2 days and long breakaways by the GC contenders.

    8.5 / 10

    Still pipped by 89 though.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    I'd prolly go about 7/10 for the first 2 weeks.

    But 10/10 for the final week.

    Giving it a sold 8 overall.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,795
    edited July 2011
    Bronzie wrote:
    What would you do to the parcours to improve things?

    I'd stick a mountain TT in...........love those guys........maybe even Andy could ride it well.


    the riders more than anything else I think...

    the mountain stages were well thought out

    a break in the middle Pyrenees stage with the aubisque and the short aggressive alpe stage worked out for them because of how it effected racing either side..

    the basic idea to keep all the GC guys upfront and thus aggressive in the 1st week worked from a racing POV but lead to more crashes , it also meant the teams were spent by the time they hit the hills... a similar thing to Holland giro 2010... crosswinds etc

    but its not so much the route as how the teams will try to exploit any nuance of the route to their advantage as minimal time gaps are so important now


    the Irony is bertie helped cadel out by being in the race as it divided Frandy's attention rather than focusing on cadel earlier on.... not only that the schlecks were blunted on the alpe by berties antics. if andy had arrived fresh at the base?... He may have been able to follow a big contador attack and pull out some time on Evans.... evans couldn't follow earlier in the day when those boys gave it a good dig?

    The race was good because it was surrounded by the aura of mythos... fans commentators and the riders all took part in creating something... which is when it gets good and the event becomes bigger than any single person in it... Evans won but it wasn't about him ...same was true of the 2010 giro..wasn't all about Basso... Thors Gilberts, TVs and Andys heroics rubbed off on a race and a lot riders put in real efforts

    Ryder up the alpe...... at one stage he is just staring at the decals on his BB telling him the thread size while hanging on for dear life...for a long time. a lot guys going way outside of PowerMeter comfort zone riding...

    the riders made the race... the 2011 giro was still a good route but betie just crushed everyone on Etna and that was that.... and everyone gave up and interestingly no one had a go from a long way out (maybe nibs) and instead just rode hoping bertie would gift them the stage on the final climb... total domination by one rider... tedious. some good stages in there but nothing really...Nibs had a few digs I guess

    As for Parcours in this tour. the alternation in the severity and length of the mountain stages was good.... and the tricky sprint stages worked well

    the supersprint made for good viewing as well and thou the riders complained I rate it as a success.... and the mountains jersey was better IMO.

    1tt and 1 ttt yes... liked that as well . shorter TT maybe...but then if Andy had arrived with 3mins in hand? less time trialing definitely.. old school 2 TTs a prologue and a long TTT was way way to much.....

    maybe mix it up...a super long lumpy almost mountain tt as the only TT?

    innovations often fail because there are innovations without development

    2009 with ventoux didn't quite work same with the tourmalet 2010.... big load of negative racing until the final climb rather than someone throwing the last roll of the dice.... a few yrs of experimenting and they are getting there.. but you could argue its because bertie had nothing to lose and played that card.... if he was 3rd on GC or something?

    a good tour is a concatenation(word) of factors
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • babyjebus
    babyjebus Posts: 93
    No '89 true, but the best TdF in years, still undecided on the final weekend- an overall eight and a half.
    Next year, a downhill TT for Andy and Frank.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    What I found disapointing was that the obligatory rubbish stage or two were the the Pyrenean stages.

    Then again, the GC attacks before the final climb was so refreshing I almost climaxed.

    I'm still not keen on the Prudhome era leave-all-the-mountains-till-as-late-as-possible.
    _
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    What I found disapointing was that the obligatory rubbish stage or two were the the Pyrenean stages.

    Then again, the GC attacks before the final climb was so refreshing I almost climaxed.

    I'm still not keen on the Prudhome era leave-all-the-mountains-till-as-late-as-possible.

    Pretty much this!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Has there been a Tour with the final (or only) time trial coming before the final mountain stage(s)?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Has there been a Tour with the final (or only) time trial coming before the final mountain stage(s)?

    2009 was one. The last stage before Paris was up Mont Ventoux. I didn't really work out as planned.

    That's the only one I can recall though.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    What I found disapointing was that the obligatory rubbish stage or two were the the Pyrenean stages.

    Then again, the GC attacks before the final climb was so refreshing I almost climaxed.

    I'm still not keen on the Prudhome era leave-all-the-mountains-till-as-late-as-possible.

    The problem with having the mountains too early is that the Tour can be done a dusted with a week and a half to go (see the Armstrong years).

    Even though the Pyrenees didn't provide great drama, they did whittle down the viable contenders while giving hints, not answers, as to the form of those that remained.

    It would be a miracle if every stage provided great action, but only stage 15 was truly boring and all the top riders had a chance to shine. The course designers can only provide a decent canvas, the artists have to decide what to paint.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • niblue
    niblue Posts: 1,387
    You need to have the big mountains late if you want drama like TV battling to hold onto the yellow, as otherwise you'd just see the main GC contendors in the jersey early in the race.

    This years format has worked well for a range of reasons, although granted the Pyrenees was a bit of a dissapointment,
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,204
    The problem for me is that all the good Tours since 89 have subsequently been overshadowed. Hopefully this one won't be. This Tour looked a lot cleaner, when people put in the big attacks they more often than not cracked or struggled to recover the next day.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    RichN95 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    What I found disapointing was that the obligatory rubbish stage or two were the the Pyrenean stages.

    Then again, the GC attacks before the final climb was so refreshing I almost climaxed.

    I'm still not keen on the Prudhome era leave-all-the-mountains-till-as-late-as-possible.

    The problem with having the mountains too early is that the Tour can be done a dusted with a week and a half to go (see the Armstrong years).

    Even though the Pyrenees didn't provide great drama, they did whittle down the viable contenders while giving hints, not answers, as to the form of those that remained.

    It would be a miracle if every stage provided great action, but only stage 15 was truly boring and all the top riders had a chance to shine. The course designers can only provide a decent canvas, the artists have to decide what to paint.

    I'd rather have a better battle between 2 or 3 protagonists rather than 8 ones who aren't really in it (despite what commentators say).

    I also think the bigger the gaps on GC are earlier on, the freer riders are to get out of the peloton and do something.

    With 8 people in contention come the final week means 7-8 teams controlling stuff.

    I get bored with 2 weeks of flat or flattish stages. They need to break it up more.

    If someone's going to dominate it like Armstrong is it'll be dull whatever happens.

    What happened 3 years ago was that we all waited for the final week, before which no-one did anything for fear of losing their GC position ( despite that they were never really in it) and then Contador destroyed them all, making that wait a waste. In the meantime, none of the other good riders who ended up making top 10 but could have lighted up the race up a lot more didn't, for fear of losing their artificial GC position.
    _

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