Are foxes on the increase? Do we need a cull?

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited July 2011 in Commuting chat
Has anyone noticed an increase in the number of foxes?

Everyday I'm seeing more and more 'urban foxes' (as Merton Council put it when they told me they do nothing to control the 'urban fox' population when I reported a family of them living in the shed of the empty house next door....). I see them roaming around the streets, city centres, parks etc and attacking my bins.

There also seems to be, having been run over by vehicles, an increasing number of squished fox carcasses on the roads. Could these cars be driven by disgruntled fox hunters....

Should we have a cull? Do we need to have one? Or should the urban fox population continue unchecked?

Discuss.

(Personally think we should bring back fox hunting - though this may or may not affect the number of 'urban foxes').
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Comments

  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Problem is, the urban fox population is limited by food supplies (which is one of the reasons the population is so much denser than in rural areas), so a cull wouldn't actually be that effective.

    Instead, we should educate people to secure their dustbins properly and (this is my pet hate) STOP FEEDING THEM! They're not cute (apart from the cubs, I admit), they're not cuddly, they're vermin. I don't see you (intentionally) putting food out for rats; what's the difference?
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    As you say, the number of urban foxes is onthe rise or at least is high, whereas the number of rural foxes is relatively low, so fox hunting would make very little difference and in any case, fox hunts wouldn't be classed as a "cull", they don't remove meaningful enough numbers from the population...

    It's simply down to human wastefulness and carelessness that foxes (and other animals like rats and seagulls) thrive in our cities. It's simply natures response to our excess, throwing food out, dropping half eaten burgers, chips, KFC etc on the street. If we want to prevent nature's reaction to our excesses, we should look to our own habits first....
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  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    nature abhors a vacum, our cities provide food and shelter, killing a few foxes will just mean next years cubs will have bigger territories to move into.

    Out of intrest why do you view the fox as a problem?
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    One of them chased me for my kebab once.

    Eventally they'll all lose their fear of humans and then we'll have to fight them just like the Mouse Infestation War of Thorton Heath in '08 and the Zombie war of '09.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    Surely the best way to control urban fox populations would be to reduce the amount of food we have lying about for them? I have no idea how a cull would even work in a city. The effective way to control rural fox populations is by shooting, and I think the H&S implications of this type of cull in Wandsworth would be prohibitive :P
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    One of them chased me for my kebab once.

    Eventally they'll all lose their fear of humans and then we'll have to fight them just like the Mouse Infestation War of Thorton Heath in '08 and the Zombie war of '09.

    A fox is the size of a Cat.....
  • MonkeyMonster
    MonkeyMonster Posts: 4,629
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Personally think we should bring back fox hunting - though this may or may not affect the number of 'urban foxes

    Well well well...
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  • richVSrich
    richVSrich Posts: 527
    fox hunting in cities? instead of horses, maybe use bikes :P ? - depending if you're pro / no to fox hunting.

    but i agree that culls only work short term. need to start from the bottom of the food chain - ie rubbish bins. or introduce a predator :)
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,816
    Litter is the friend of urban foxes, that and people who don't keep their rubbish secure, when I lived in Romford we were next to a family who slept in and used to but bin bags out the night before, we were forever chucking the debris the foxes left on our front lawn back over - sanitary towels seemed to attract them for some reason.......no end of asking them to use Bins were ignored.

    Cull the idiots feeding them would be a better bet!

    A fox is the size of a cat????? Maine Coon's maybe, not a normal cat, more about the size of a sheepdog!

    Simon
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    is anyone else thinking about the Crack Fox from the Mighty Boosh?

    1208972-crack_fox_super.jpg
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • Jason82
    Jason82 Posts: 142
    Apparently Eagles eat foxes so introduce eagles to the cities and problem solved :wink:
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  • TuckerUK
    TuckerUK Posts: 369
    Urban foxes are definitely on the increase. When we lived in Croydon you'd see the odd one roaming the streets in broad daylight. Also in Croydon, my mum had some living under her shed, and the cubs would regularly frolic with her two cats. One of the parents actually sunbathed in the garden one summer's day!

    Not sure foxes on the whole are on the increase though, since moving to Norfolk I've not seen a single specimen, dead or alive (and we see lots of road kill here).

    I don't think we should bring back fox hunting, far too cruel. Far more humane to poison them (or another animal that eats the bait) to die in agony, or shoot them (and possible miss to die slowly form an infected gunshot wound). :roll:
    "Coming through..."
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165

    A fox is the size of a cat????? Maine Coon's maybe, not a normal cat, more about the size of a sheepdog!

    Simon

    their weight is between 5-22 lb, ie about the same as a cat, most tend to the lower end, remember they are leggy animals.

    a sheep dog is a lot bigger.
  • gilesjuk
    gilesjuk Posts: 340
    Cars have always killed more foxes than the so called "hunt".

    If you want to control fox numbers you get a couple of pest control people called Dave and Steve to take care of them.

    Fox hunts are all about dressing up in nice suits and all the ceremony, nothing to do with pest control. Some hunts have been found to be helping foxes by feeding them.
  • yocto
    yocto Posts: 86
    Foxes are definitely on the increase , if my area is anything to go by. They are a problem and a pest. We have one that likes to spend time in our garden. It sh*ts all over our decking and patio, has dug up our strawberries and coriander. One time it got injured and bled all over our decking, it then crawled under the cover of our garden furniture, took a lie down on a chair and bled all over the cushion.

    Earlier this year they were making an incredible racket right outside our house which woke us and kept us up. Think it must have been mating season or something as they did quieten down after a couple of weeks.

    As my idiot neighbours (more or less the whole street) don’t know how to put out there bins properly, the damn pests have a feast come Thursday night and leave a huge mess or rubbish along the whole road.

    I would have thought that educating people about how to dispose of their rubbish is the best idea, however, we have had numerous leaflets through our door from the council explaining to leave rubbish in closed bins, in our front garden and the waste collectors will come into our front garden and pick it up. But as said, as our street are plain stupid or can’t read English, sure enough come the night before waste collection, outside every house, there will be piles of black bags galore, waiting to be torn apart.

    Shoot them I say! Or shoot the thickos who leave rubbish out for them!

    Rant over.
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    Jason82 wrote:
    Apparently Eagles eat foxes so introduce eagles to the cities and problem solved :wink:

    Nah, eagles feed mainly off carrion. They'd end up ignoring the foxes and just going for kebabs instead (discarded or not).
  • cee
    cee Posts: 4,553
    in my local area, we have seen a decline in the number of urban foxes....

    it more or less coincides with the introduction of on street bins (big things with a lid, that all the flats put their rubbish bags in)...instead of putting the bags onto the street supposedly on the morning of, but more normally, the night before a refuse collection...
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  • lastant
    lastant Posts: 526
    mudcow007 wrote:
    is anyone else thinking about the Crack Fox from the Mighty Boosh?

    Nope...I was thinking more of Nelson from Mongrels...

    p008xy7d_640_360.jpg
    One Man and LEJOG : End-to-End on Two Wheels in Two Weeks (Buy the book; or Kindle it!)
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,816
    their weight is between 5-22 lb, ie about the same as a cat, .
    The average domestic cat is 3.5Kg, 8lbs, a large one 4.5Kg (9lbs) that is a lot less than 22lbs! We sometimes get foxes from the local woods in our garden (cats, guinea pigs and a tortoise to attract them) and the dog is easily as big as a smallish sheepdog, the vixen is a fair bit smaller though.

    Simon
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • KonaMike
    KonaMike Posts: 805
    I am pretty terrified of the Crack Fox to be honest !! :oops: :roll:
  • mudcow007
    mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    KonaMike wrote:
    I am pretty terrified of the Crack Fox to be honest !! :oops: :roll:

    id rather be chased by the Crack Fox than Old Greg though :shock:
    Keeping it classy since '83
  • _Brun_
    _Brun_ Posts: 1,740
    Why should the state dictate whether foxes are allowed to have as many offspring as they see fit?

    Hypocrite.
  • KonaMike
    KonaMike Posts: 805
    mudcow007 wrote:
    KonaMike wrote:
    I am pretty terrified of the Crack Fox to be honest !! :oops: :roll:

    id rather be chased by the Crack Fox than Old Greg though :shock:


    Its too close to call !! :lol:

    We had a large pile of binbags in our back garden overnight when we were renovating the house......
    I spent half the night having crazy Crack Fox dreams :oops: :oops:

    ( Milky Joe Rocks !! )
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    their weight is between 5-22 lb, ie about the same as a cat, .
    The average domestic cat is 3.5Kg, 8lbs, a large one 4.5Kg (9lbs) that is a lot less than 22lbs! We sometimes get foxes from the local woods in our garden (cats, guinea pigs and a tortoise to attract them) and the dog is easily as big as a smallish sheepdog, the vixen is a fair bit smaller though.

    Simon

    22lb is only the very largest and they are fairly rare, most are to the lower end, they are leggy animals so can look bigger, but their weight is low, sheep dog sized is rare, as that is Coyote sized.
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    Bin bags?! I thought everyone had wheely bins now?! They certainly reduce the mess from bags being ripped open by cats/foxes/birds.

    The person moaning that a fox went on their patio......er....it's outdoors :roll: . If you couldn't go outside for fear of being eaten by a pack of super-foxes then you might have a point, but the fox crapping on your patio has nothing to do with 'overpopulation', it's just because there's one fox that likes your patio.

    Round here we've got looooads of rabbits, if we had more foxes they might cut down on the rabbit population.

    Or we could introduce something that eats foxes. Like lions. SCR could become more interesting. :lol:
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  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    bails87 wrote:
    Bin bags?! I thought everyone had wheely bins now?! They certainly reduce the mess from bags being ripped open by cats/foxes/birds.

    The person moaning that a fox went on their patio......er....it's outdoors :roll: . If you couldn't go outside for fear of being eaten by a pack of super-foxes then you might have a point, but the fox crapping on your patio has nothing to do with 'overpopulation', it's just because there's one fox that likes your patio.

    Round here we've got looooads of rabbits, if we had more foxes they might cut down on the rabbit population.

    Or we could introduce something that eats foxes. Like lions. SCR could become more interesting. :lol:

    that would be Coyote's they reduce fox populations, and unlike the Wolf will come into town.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    My street has about 5 or so foxes roaming it.

    The reason is simple.

    We get twice a week bin collections, with no bins, so you chuck your bin bag on the pavement.

    What I don't understand however, is that despite the lorry coming around 9 o'clock, some people (many people) insist on leaving their bin bags out the night before, and the foxes then go crazy.

    How many of these households have people who don't leave the house before 9 in the morning? I can't imagine many. Rent's not cheap so you got to pay it somehow.

    Bizarre.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    _Brun_ wrote:
    Why should the state dictate whether foxes are allowed to have as many offspring as they see fit?

    Hypocrite.

    Because the state is there to look after people, not animals.
  • rml380z
    rml380z Posts: 244
    lastant wrote:
    mudcow007 wrote:
    is anyone else thinking about the Crack Fox from the Mighty Boosh?

    Nope...I was thinking more of Nelson from Mongrels...

    This urban fox instantly came to my mind

    Urban%2BFox.jpg