Can Contador win it?

MaxVO2

Back to the topic: yes, he will win.

1. Remember he only had 5 days notice before he was asked to race Giro 2008. He's coming into the 3rd week on schedule. Schlecks lost the TdF in the Pyrenees. He's gotten a lot stronger psychologically and tactically since riding with Bruyneel and Armstrong. LT is a stronger team, and Contador will use them to his advantage, just like Armstrong did on his win at Luz Ardiden. Allow the other team to blow up the peloton and then demolish the other rival (that's what Bruyneel and Armstrong did).

2. Frandy got dropped today on the rode to Gap. Frandy had to use Spartacus to chase down Contador, and they still couldn't maintain it. It was disgusting how Andy needed a teammate to help him ride into a downhill/flat finish. Pathetic! Frank didn't make any pulls at the front either. It's because they were caught off guard and are weak mentally and physically.

3. Evans can't win. He lost the 2010 Giro to Basso. He won't attack on the high mountains. He'll continue following wheels. BMC and he were caught off guard today. They couldn't help him. The only reason he beat Contador today, was because he's had lots of rest. He won't do well in the high mountains, because of his past demons. Beside, I really hate his bad attitude. Is everyone forgetting how much of a hater he was before he won the world championship and his tenure with Lotto?

graeme_s-2

MaxVO2 wrote:

BMC and [Evans] were caught off guard today. They couldn't help him. The only reason he beat Contador today, was because he's had lots of rest.

Eh? BMC were working on the front before Contador attacked, suggesting Evans was planning an attack of his own. When Contador attacked, Evans covered it, then he countered and put time into everybody else, including Contador. If it hadn't been for Sanchez then I suspect Evans would have put a bit more time into Contador than he did.

I agree that Evans may have problems yet to come in the Alps, but I don't see how you can possibly criticise his performance yesterday.

bigmat

LeicesterLad wrote:

Thats fair enough Pokerface. But think the schlecks don't do the same? :roll: If we are all going to be honest with ourselves, then we can admit that a large percentage of pro-cyclists are cheats in one way or another. Im not saying its right, im not saying its wrong, im just saying Contador gets the stick for being the Only cheat in the peloton, fact of the matter is, Contador undoped, would still beat Shlecks doped.

Hard to say really. You're assuming we've ever seen Contador un-doped. I wouldn't be massively surprised if that wasn't the case. I agree the Schlecks are likely as bad - hence Andy's lack of criticism following Bertie's positive. I also agree with your comments on Andy up to a point - to be fair to him, I do think that with the Weylandt tragedy his "whimpy" descending is understandable (I had a similar experience on the Marmotte after an early spill on the Glandon), although much like David Haye he'd be better keeping his excuses to himself and letting his performances do the talking.

Your rant defending Contador is (knowingly?) clueless. The most rational explanation for the clen in his system is that he had a transfusion and the clen was present in what he had mistakenly believed to be clean blood (albeit in miniscule quantities). My suspicion is that he was targetted as the authorities believed he was transfusing and that the clen is just evidence of the transfusion. The plasticisers back that up. Of course it could be the dodgy steak...

alan_a

LeicesterLad wrote:

oscarbudgie wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

oscarbudgie wrote:

Contador suddenly finds form after the second rest day.....
Now where have I heard that before?
No doubt the cheating tw@t spent yesterday hooked up to a big bag of his own blood. Almost a tradition for the guy.

And what do you base that on you clueless numpty?

Its what he did last year you clueless pr!ck

You getting a strop on little man?

Last year, so that makes it a tradition then? :roll: Think you will find (assuming your a shleckett) that both of them skill-less C*nts are doped up to the eyeballs...

As for clenbuterol, To see any physical effect on the human body, it must be used for a great lengths of weeks - Months, the fact that Contador tested negative 48 hours, and 24 hours prior to the race, would suggest, in my opinion, it wasn't intentional, A, what would be the point, it was such a low dose, it would have literally ZERO effect on the body, B, The imported steak might be more reasonable than it seems, infact several teams are importing food this tour. He shat on the Giro, Clean. FACT. He sh*ts on both schlecks, Clean, FACT.

That pair of whimps may have the body to get up the climbs, as for skill, bike handling, penache, aggression - None. ''fans don't want to see descents, its to dangerous, im a gawky looking snotty nosed ponse that thinks every finish should be 2000m above sea level just because thats the only type of ride i know how to do, Fans want to see boring, monotonous, p*ss poor attempts at attacks, and some good old brotherly love, as well as plenty of chain dropping, and whineing like a spoilt little kid''

Last year the Clenbuterol got into his blood stream during the second rest day by mistake... not by design. As many have pointed out previously the likely hood is that it did not get there via a steak but via a bag of Condator's own blood, which had been taken and stored several months earlier, but a few days too soon after use of Clenbuterol. When transfused back into him during the rest day it subsequently showed in the tests. DOH

Yep Andy's riding and post race comments were appalling yesterday, yep Contador rode fantastically (as did Evans, Sanchez, Hushovd etc etc) however Bertie sadly is not a clean rider FACT.

Plus calling the Schlecks C*nts is not on... And that's coming from a Glaswegian who uses the C-bomb frequently in his work.

LeicesterLad

Alan A wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

oscarbudgie wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

oscarbudgie wrote:

Contador suddenly finds form after the second rest day.....
Now where have I heard that before?
No doubt the cheating tw@t spent yesterday hooked up to a big bag of his own blood. Almost a tradition for the guy.

And what do you base that on you clueless numpty?

Its what he did last year you clueless pr!ck

You getting a strop on little man?

Last year, so that makes it a tradition then? :roll: Think you will find (assuming your a shleckett) that both of them skill-less C*nts are doped up to the eyeballs...

As for clenbuterol, To see any physical effect on the human body, it must be used for a great lengths of weeks - Months, the fact that Contador tested negative 48 hours, and 24 hours prior to the race, would suggest, in my opinion, it wasn't intentional, A, what would be the point, it was such a low dose, it would have literally ZERO effect on the body, B, The imported steak might be more reasonable than it seems, infact several teams are importing food this tour. He shat on the Giro, Clean. FACT. He sh*ts on both schlecks, Clean, FACT.

That pair of whimps may have the body to get up the climbs, as for skill, bike handling, penache, aggression - None. ''fans don't want to see descents, its to dangerous, im a gawky looking snotty nosed ponse that thinks every finish should be 2000m above sea level just because thats the only type of ride i know how to do, Fans want to see boring, monotonous, p*ss poor attempts at attacks, and some good old brotherly love, as well as plenty of chain dropping, and whineing like a spoilt little kid''

Last year the Clenbuterol got into his blood stream during the second rest day by mistake... not by design. As many have pointed out previously the likely hood is that it did not get there via a steak but via a bag of Condator's own blood, which had been taken and stored several months earlier, but a few days too soon after use of Clenbuterol. When transfused back into him during the rest day it subsequently showed in the tests. DOH

Yep Andy's riding and post race comments were appalling yesterday, yep Contador rode fantastically (as did Evans, Sanchez, Hushovd etc etc) however Bertie sadly is not a clean rider FACT.

Plus calling the Schlecks C*nts is not on... And that's coming from a Glaswegian who uses the C-bomb frequently in his work.

Im not saying he is clean, i cannot deny the fact that substances were found in his blood, im purely saying nobdy else is clean either.

LeicesterLad

I just don't understand the beef (excuse the pun) towards Contador, while many of us get tearful at Vino's retirement (biggest doper ever), Shleck and Shleckett both dope, hence the no comment on Contadors positive, and many others undoubtedly dope aswell, its just that even with cheating, they still cant win anything. Everybody is pretty even in that respect. Dope or no dope, id rather watch a classy rider like Contaodr, than a dullard like Schleck.

stfc1

BigMat wrote:

The plasticisers back that up.

Or they would, if the presence of plasticisers was anything more than an unsubstantiated rumour. Certainly there was no mention of it in the evidence presented to the Spanish authorities, and it is that same evidence that will be presented to the CAS.

mididoctors

yes yes yes they are all dopers...but can he win?

MaxwellBygraves

I think now he can.

Shleck is way off the pace (both of them). Blowing on a 2nd cat climb and needing the well known climber Cancellara to try and pace them back...?

Evans looks good but I don't think he can match Alberto in the High Alps. Is a case of seeing how much he can limit his losses.

All the GC contenders have made the mistake of riding too conservatively when Alberto was suffering with injury. The way he was riding, they could have lots of time into him if they went for it in the Pyrenees.

They gave him time, plus a rest day, to get back on form.

I also think it's worth noting that Alberto has Riis on his side - he will know when Andy is feeling bad and when is best to hit him with an attack.

alan_a

LeicesterLad wrote:

Im not saying he is clean, i cannot deny the fact that substances were found in his blood, im purely saying nobdy else is clean either.

LeicesterLad wrote:

He shat on the Giro, Clean. FACT. He sh*ts on both schlecks, Clean, FACT.

Is that the sound of back peddling i hear?

LeicesterLad

Alan A wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Im not saying he is clean, i cannot deny the fact that substances were found in his blood, im purely saying nobdy else is clean either.

LeicesterLad wrote:

He shat on the Giro, Clean. FACT. He sh*ts on both schlecks, Clean, FACT.

Is that the sound of back peddling i hear?

No actually, its not, i originally refer to last years Tour, he was not clean, science states so, but i believe under such close scrutiny, he would not have doped in the GIRO, and he would not have Doped for this tour, hence why i say he shat on the Giro clean.

mididoctors

I think he has a bit of task dropping cadel or andy for big time which he needs


there still is a lot of guys still in play which tends to neutralise the racing

he has to be repeatedly very aggressive and not blow a gasket..I think its an ask but maybe

a week ago I had him written off


cadel has had a near perfect race.... never having to put the jersey on and just sitting there gaining time on everyone who matters i

the schlecks have just really f++ked it up

its a good tour still hard to call.. you can see basso coming back into the mix for a shot at the podium

MaxwellBygraves

mididoctors wrote:

its a good tour still hard to call.. you can see basso coming back into the mix for a shot at the podium

True enough, I wouldn't write him off yet.

Shame that Wiggins isn't there, I genuinely think he'd be looking at podium after the TT

singlespeedexplosif

I think he has a bit of task dropping cadel or andy for big time which he needs
I would say he already has enough on Andy. Evans will be much easier to drop.

disgruntledgoat

Double post: Deleted.

disgruntledgoat

@Midi

My thoughts precisely, Evans has raced to perfection. Gained time where he could. Not tried anything rash as he knows that Voeckler will fade in the Alps, The Schelcks can't TT and he got what he needs on Bert on day 1.

@Leicesterlad

There's no need for the bad language. People will react to you much more positively if you aren't so confrontational.

LeicesterLad

disgruntledgoat wrote:

@Midi

My thoughts precisely, Evans has raced to perfection. Gained time where he could. Not tried anything rash as he knows that Voeckler will fade in the Alps, The Schelcks can't TT and he got what he needs on Bert on day 1.

@Leicesterlad

There's no need for the bad language. People will react to you much more positively if you aren't so confrontational.

I understand that, although was original fighting fire with fire after Contador was labelled a cheating Tw@t and i was labelled a pr*ck.

luckao

Impossible. No. Possible. Yes - a brief timeline of how this thread has gone/will go. Reverse the timeline for Voeckler's chances.

MaxVO2

Graeme_S wrote:

MaxVO2 wrote:

BMC and [Evans] were caught off guard today. They couldn't help him. The only reason he beat Contador today, was because he's had lots of rest.

Eh? BMC were working on the front before Contador attacked, suggesting Evans was planning an attack of his own. When Contador attacked, Evans covered it, then he countered and put time into everybody else, including Contador. If it hadn't been for Sanchez then I suspect Evans would have put a bit more time into Contador than he did.

I agree that Evans may have problems yet to come in the Alps, but I don't see how you can possibly criticise his performance yesterday.

"suggesting Evans was planning an attack of his own"? That's what Ligget was saying, and I like Ligget a lot, but his commentary is losing all aspects of fact. He's constantly repeating himself...how many times did he say the peloton is ahead of itself by 20 minutes or how many times does incorrectly identify a rider?

Back to BMC: 2 or 3 of his riders were riding tempo and keeping him out of harm, because that's what they've been doing throughout the tour. He's king BMC. It's because that's what Cadel demands. He's an egomaniac and doesn't want to waste one calorie of energy. Ever. And the fact of the matter is Cadel did NOT attack. He rarely attacks. He's a defensive rider, that's why he's so annoying to watch. He may counterattack, but it's very rare. And that's what he did on stage 16. He took advantage of Contador's recovering on the downhill.

Furthermore, Contador only lost 3 seconds. Evans was losing it toward the end and Contador was getting better. Samu didn't help much. In fact, we rarely saw him helping in the chase. Contador was doing most of the work and Samu benefited. This surprised me, because Samu is supposed to be a real good downhiller, but from yesterday's performance, I'm doubting it. The reason why Evans gained time was because Contador needed to recover from the uphill exertion - he pulled Evans and Samu up. Again, Evans did the climb defensively.

Contador took a gamble on pulling up Evans, but he had to do it to gain time on Voeckler and Schlecks. I respect his offensive, never-give-up style. Evans should be thanking Contador, because Evans wouldn't have done it.

richard wants a baum

Contador wont drop Evans on any climb, there you go! ( hope i have'nt jinxed him :shock: )

MaxVO2

Deleted double post

singlespeedexplosif

Contador wont drop Evans on any climb
Location: Australia.

that explains that one then

LeicesterLad

MaxVO2 wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

MaxVO2 wrote:

BMC and [Evans] were caught off guard today. They couldn't help him. The only reason he beat Contador today, was because he's had lots of rest.

Eh? BMC were working on the front before Contador attacked, suggesting Evans was planning an attack of his own. When Contador attacked, Evans covered it, then he countered and put time into everybody else, including Contador. If it hadn't been for Sanchez then I suspect Evans would have put a bit more time into Contador than he did.

I agree that Evans may have problems yet to come in the Alps, but I don't see how you can possibly criticise his performance yesterday.

"suggesting Evans was planning an attack of his own"? That's what Ligget was saying, and I like Ligget a lot, but his commentary is losing all aspects of fact. He's constantly repeating himself...how many times did he say the peloton is ahead of itself by 20 minutes or how many times does incorrectly identify a rider?

Back to BMC: 2 or 3 of his riders were riding tempo and keeping him out of harm, because that's what they've been doing throughout the tour. He's king BMC. It's because that's what Cadel demands. He's an egomaniac and doesn't want to waste one calorie of energy. Ever. And the fact of the matter is Cadel did NOT attack. He rarely attacks. He's a defensive rider, that's why he's so annoying to watch. He may counterattack, but it's very rare. And that's what he did on stage 16. He took advantage of Contador's recovering on the downhill.

Furthermore, Contador only lost 3 seconds. Evans was losing it toward the end and Contador was getting better. Samu didn't help much. In fact, we rarely saw him helping in the chase. Contador was doing most of the work and Samu benefited. This surprised me, because Samu is supposed to be a real good downhiller, but from yesterday's performance, I'm doubting it. The reason why Evans gained time was because Contador needed to recover from the uphill exertion - he pulled Evans and Samu up. Again, Evans did the climb defensively.

Contador took a gamble on pulling up Evans, but he had to do it to gain time on Voeckler and Schlecks. I respect his offensive, never-give-up style. Evans should be thanking Contador, because Evans wouldn't have done it.

Agree with that, Evans had a great ride, but if Contador hadn't made a move, it would have been a non-event.

disgruntledgoat

But he did, so it's a moot point.

Don't knock 4 seconds. Evans lost a tour by 34s.

richard wants a baum

Actually its not really about that, Evans just seems to have done something to his position and style while his climbing and he seems to be alot more comfortable on the climbs. I almost didnt post that but to be honest i cant think of a time pre-2009 when his lost huge chunks of time to Contador on the climbs? Willing to admit im wrong just cant think of a particular stage where he has.

mididoctors

disgruntledgoat wrote:

@Midi

My thoughts precisely, Evans has raced to perfection. Gained time where he could. Not tried anything rash as he knows that Voeckler will fade in the Alps, The Schelcks can't TT and he got what he needs on Bert on day 1.

.

I think evans was right to be keen to put a least some time into tommy early on just to discourage the heroics... Tommy sees the writing on the wall now...

for bertie he has to drop evans for serious time

nearly 2 mins he has on him! and then if that occured the TT is no certainity even if bertie went into it with a small lead?

cadel has a easy cushion of a minute he could calculate to give up to bertie somewhere if he is on a bad one... might happen I suppose

calvjones

richard wants a baum wrote:

Actually its not really about that, Evans just seems to have done something to his position and style while his climbing and he seems to be alot more comfortable on the climbs. I almost didnt post that but to be honest i cant think of a time pre-2009 when his lost huge chunks of time to Contador on the climbs? Willing to admit im wrong just cant think of a particular stage where he has.

1:30 at Luz Ardiden when Ras and Contador duelled their merry juiced up dance?

You can always tell a July-only cycling fan because they invariably claim Cadel is a defensive rider. :roll:

singlespeedexplosif

I almost didnt post that but to be honest i cant think of a time pre-2009 when his lost huge chunks of time to Contador on the climbs?

Given that Contador didn't ride the Tour in 08, let's look at '07:

Stage 14: Contador puts 1:52 into Evans
Stage 15: Contador puts 0:56 into Evans

mididoctors

richard wants a baum wrote:

Contador wont drop Evans on any climb, there you go! ( hope i have'nt jinxed him :shock: )

yeah, cadel is looking comfortable following the wheels

at times looks capable of coming over the top but instead just half wheels everybody and holds back :twisted:

the riders are so close and so wary of showing their hand its becoming a very "pokerface" edition of the race even by cycling standards

contador went all in and gained sometime the other day but it wasn't overly impressive physiologically as much as psychologically

stokepa31

Well Cadel has two bites at this Cherry. I dont think the question is can Contador win because clearly he has the explosive attacks that can hurt anyone. The question is will Cadel in 2nd be enough to get it by default when Bertie gets nailed for doping.

not a bad place for Cadel to be in as even if he does lose a chunk to Bertie, i cant see Frandy hurting him