Can you swop 105 9spd (5510) and 10spd (5600) levers across?

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 12,126
edited July 2011 in Workshop
Hello all,

I have a bit of a 'situation' that I am not sure how to proceed with.

My Felt has Black finish 105 9spd, and a double on the front, so my left lever is configured for two clicks, and my right for 9.

I bought another bike a few years ago to use as a tourer, this has Silver Shimano 10spd/triple setup, so left hand lever configured for three clicks, and right hand for 10.

I want my Felt to have a 10spd cassette, but want to retain the double, but I also want the levers to match, in terms of finish, ie I don't want one to be silver and one to be black.

Alternatively if I could simply swap the levers from one to the other, then I could do it that way, but I've never taken one of these things apart, so am not too sure whether that is a possibility or not.

I can't do a wholesale swap, as the left hand levers are designed for a double or a triple, and would then be on the wrong bikes - unless you can get their shifting capabilities altered between the two?

Has anyone done anything like this before?

Alternatively, I can spend money and try and get a right hand 10spd lever in black, but this will leave me with a spare lever, which seems a little silly if there is no need.

Apprecaite anyones insight into this,

Cheers

Dan
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18

Comments

  • BG2000
    BG2000 Posts: 517
    You can use the triple LHS shifter on a double (I'm currently doing that on 2 road bikes that I converted from triple to double).

    The only thing you can't do is change into all 3 rings on the tourer using the double LHS shifter, assuming you're swapping all the 9 speed drivetrain components across to the Felt.
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    Which shifters actually are they ?
    The 105 9sp will be ST5503 or something (peel back the rubber hood and it'll be moulded on the shifter body), and what are the 10sp ?

    Some shifters can handle triples, or can be limited via the front mech to only allow tou to access two positions to work as doubles - as bg2000 did when he moves his triple shifters over onto a double bike.

    It may be that both sets of shifters will handle triples, i.e. the current double is actually just limited, could handle a triple

    However some double shifters will only handle doubles - need model number to see, as above

    What you could do is disconnect the cable from the front mech and see if the disconnected shifter now has the three positions rather than just two
    - but you'd then have to reconnect, retention and adjust the cable again, which isn't the easiest thing if you're not sure what you're doing
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,126
    Hi Andy,

    the Felt has ST5510 written on both levers, can't get to the Marin right now as it's in the garage, and it's cold and dark outside, but will look tomorrow :-)

    Ah I see what you mean, so it might just be the setup that is stopping them shifting, rather than that they are only ever able to handle a double.

    Will update tomorrow with the number on the Marin,

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,126
    Hello again,

    ok the Marin has ST5600 on both levers - does that help at all?

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    Right then !

    The 9sp 105's will handle double/compact or triple
    I myself have taken equiovalent 9sp ST6510 Ultegra shifters off a friend's double bike and fitted them to my triple bike

    The 5600's are 10sp 105's and similarly will also handle both...
    ...however, a number of people broke them when using them as doubles and if you search you'll find threads from people complaining they were broken, were rubbish, expensive to replace, warranty claims, etc
    (google '105 shifter broken' or similar...)

    The reason is that to use them as doubles, you basically adjust the cable and front mech so that the click positions which would be used for the inner and middle ring of a triple are used for the two rings of the double, with the front mech adjusted so that the cable is now fully taut meaning you can't actually push the lever further over to get to the further click positions which would handle the outer ring of the triple

    But the fault seemed to be that the click positions are there in the lever and if you did heavy-select them, i.e. not realising you were already in the big ring you tried to push the lever over, you then break something inside the lever.

    The fault didn't apply to the 9sp ST5510's as they are beefier, don't seem to break so easily as the 10sp's, the reports of them breaking were only the ST5600
    And didn't apply to the equivalent 10sp Ultegra ST6600's as there was a ST6600 which only had click positions for doubles and a different ST6603 for triples...

    ...eventually Shimano did the same with 105, replaced the ST5600 with a ST5603 for triples and a ST5601 for doubles

    Have a look at Shimano's tech docs http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/bl ... 302051113&
    and this post
    http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 48685.html
    - the guy is suggesting using the middle and outer positions for the click positions ffrom a triple as the two ring positions for a double, where the inner click positions would still be selectable but not actually do anything and there wouldn't be a third inner ring to change down into.

    So, in your case, you could take the 9sp levers off the double bike and they'd work on your triple bike.
    Fine.

    And you could take the 10sp levers off your triple bike and put them on the double bike

    However there's a history of people breaking these shifters (well, the lefthand one) when run like this, and Shimano eventually gave in and produced specific double and triple versions.

    But there must have been lots and lots of bikes made with ST5600's as doubles and whilst there were quite a few people complaining of breaking them, I bet there are still lots out there working fine.

    Up to you !
  • BG2000
    BG2000 Posts: 517
    That is a good point Andy. I did have to spend some time setting up my Tiagra front triple shifter when I changed to a double chainset. I found with certain cable/FD adjustment that it would change up onto the big ring OK, but sometimes if I changed up quickly, hence pulling the lever a bit harder, it would find the next 'click' upwards. The problem was that it would sit in that position with a lot of cable tension, and many index shifters get themselves stuck, and require some 'slack' before releasing the ratchet mechanism to allow downshifting again. And I think some triple shifters don't simply have 3 positions (of which you only need to use 2), I think some have maybe 4 or 5 positions, and the trick is to adjust everything so you don't overlap onto these extra clicks. But this is only an issue when shifting up, i.e. pulling the cable, and I can see how this could lead to broken shifters.

    Luckily for me, I changed to an 11 speed double chainset, so with it being narrower, I actually needed less FD movement than with the original 9 speed's top 2 chainrings, so this helped me avoid those extra clicks.

    I think this follows what Andy is saying...
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,126
    Hi Andy,

    :shock:

    That is a comprehensive a reply, thankyou so much, you have a wealth of knowledge on this subject I can see!

    That explains it all perfectly, so I now know exactly what my options are.

    I shall certainly do some mulling over, now i know exactly what the potential pitfalls are, and take it from there.

    I suppose one get out would be to sell the 9 spd set of shifters and buy another set of 10spd ones specifically designed for a double.

    Hmmm, I will have to put some serious thought into this, but at least I am armed with the information above, thankyou again!

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,126
    Thanks for your help Andy, based on the above, i decided that the best thing to do was get a dedicated 10spd shifter, and as luck would have it, one popped up on ebay (A black one) which I managed to bag for £31, whcih i did not think was too bad.

    The top section is silver but by the looks of it, I should be able to swap that over with the existing nice speed one,

    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    Good for you.

    Now just the job of fitting (easy) and adjusting (bit more fiddly)
    - see Park Tools website and have a read through the instructions there