"Flats & 5,10s"......WOW.

swiftyx2

Folks,

Well today was the day!!!!, Flats & 5,10s.

Now been a Roadie for the last 25 years and been used to been "clipped" in and only getting my "Right Foot" out no more than twice per ride. Then trying Mountain Biking and thinking "God" what have I been missing all these years.

So over the last few months I have been having problems been clipped in whilst learning to MTB and having a nightmare when trying to get my left foot out in a hurry!!!!.

So decided to try flats and some proper shoes???, this should be fun,LOL.
Well I have now tried it and well its "differant", I struggled with foot position as used to the cleats been in same place every time and my Roadie head telling me "foot not in optimum position" lack of power,speed etc. Oh my god!!!!!!.
Then my foot will be slipping all over the place and I will not be able controll the bike!!!!.

" Well what can I say another eye opener" YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE BOLTED TO THE BIKE",..........LOL.

So folks I have been converted flats work and them 5.10s grip like glue !!
and its nice to be able to get away from bike when needed.
Still got to train "Left Leg though".

Sorry if waffling on! its the celebratory bottle of wine.......

ATB, Steve

The Northern Monkey

What flats?

swiftyx2

Hi,

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, Gold finish.

The Northern Monkey

Good choice!

I've been fine with a pair of £25 skate shoes, never been fussed by the 5:10's as they're too "clompy" for me.

Never got on with SPD's, they didn't feel safe haha!

cooldad

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Hi,

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, Gold finish.

Not for long. Soon they'll be magnesium colour.
Excellent pedals though.

bartimaeus

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, finish bashed by pedal strikes

FTFY

Got my MG1s last autumn, and haven't switched back to my XT spds as the MG1/AM41 combo is just so comfortable. I've only just figured out that I can completely change my foot position for safer descending :oops:

getonyourbike

I'm riding some Superstar Nano Thru Pins with even longer pins with some Shimano AM41s and it's great. You've got loads of grip to move the bike around in the air etc but can still easily stick a foot out for a drifty corner or bail easily. Flats are for me, I think I'm too clumsy for SPDs and like getting a bit too ragged.

cooldad

Bartimaeus wrote:

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, shins bashed by pedal strikes

FTFY

The Northern Monkey

cooldad wrote:

Bartimaeus wrote:

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, shins bashed by pedal strikes

FTFY

*





* Field of potatoes.

lawman

I've been using 5:10's and flats for a few years, never had a problem, but recently I have been tempted by spd's, well crank bros acids actually, I've got a pair of eggbeaters in the garage, might give em a go while i'm on holiday, see how I get on in a safe environment

mkf

i am gona give flats a go after years of beimg clipped in, but i feel the need to still be clipped in on the climbs, so i'v ordered a pair of flats with spuds in one side and pins the other, best of both worlds i hope

Anonymous

mkf wrote:

i am gona give flats a go after years of beimg clipped in, but i feel the need to still be clipped in on the climbs, so i'v ordered a pair of flats with spuds in one side and pins the other, best of both worlds i hope

Actually they're quite often the worst of both worlds, combined. Since the side you want will be, according to sod's law, not the one your foot lands on. Generally, these kinds of pedals are also absolutely trerrible flat pedals.

Why do you feel the need to clip in for climbs? Chances are it's just a technique thing that needs working on.

nicklouse

yeehaamcgee wrote:

mkf wrote:

i am gona give flats a go after years of beimg clipped in, but i feel the need to still be clipped in on the climbs, so i'v ordered a pair of flats with spuds in one side and pins the other, best of both worlds i hope

Actually they're quite often the worst of both worlds, combined. Since the side you want will be, according to sod's law, not the one your foot lands on. Generally, these kinds of pedals are also absolutely trerrible flat pedals.

Why do you feel the need to clip in for climbs? Chances are it's just a technique thing that needs working on.

the second worst pedals ever after 5050s

seriously dont do it unless you are a comuter.

Been there done it and binned them.

either full SPDs and good very stiff soled shoes or flats and 5:10s

peter413

nicklouse wrote:

either full SPDs and good very stiff soled shoes or flats and 5:10s

Or some Time Freeride's or Crank Brothers Mallets (or any others similar) with some softer soled shoes like the Shimano AM45's.

This is what I use after deciding to try clipless so borrowed a mates stiff soled shoes and SPD's but didn't get on with the feel of them but knew I likes the extra power so I got some Time Freeride's with the AM45 shoes cheap at my LBS and really liked them. I still use the flats nearly all the time on the downhill bike but the Time's are on the hardtail for a huge amount of my riding now because they feel just like flats to me under my feet but I'm attached to them so I get the extra power (perfect for trail centre stuff).

Anonymous

Being attatched doesn't give you extra power, the stiffer sole does.

peter413

Most people seem to call it efficiency but it isn't, it's power since you can accelerate quicker with clips since you can pull up and push down instead of just pushing down. It definitely isn't efficiency since you can run out of energy quicker using this method.

Anonymous

Nope. You can't.
I'm not getting into the whole debacle again. Search for it, I'm sure it's still here somewhere.

peter413

I'm not talking about theory though, this is what happens in real life. At least it's what I have found as well as others I know.

Anonymous

Well what you have found differs to cocnlusive test results as well then.
The best you can achieve is to help unweight your rear foot. That's it. End of.

Anonymous

Swiftyx2 wrote:

" Well what can I say another eye opener" YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE BOLTED TO THE BIKE",..........LOL.

+1 to that.

Seems the ones who get on best with spuds on mountain bikes prefer long climbs and distance XC. Whilst I like a bit of more classical cross country trekking from time to time, once you get twisty, gnarly & downhilly most seem to bin the spuds and get flats. I certainly would find spuds a great advantage for the climbs sure, but down is what I do mainly.

Don't deny that some people can cope with spuds really well on the gnarly stuff though.

5 10s are great too. It's not the shoes themselves but the grippy sole (which they can apply to any shoe apparently). Skate shoes with good waffle soles are good too.

Basically good flats with big pins and shoes that are grippy.

peter413

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Well what you have found differs to cocnlusive test results as well then.

Which tests? This test shows that there is greater acceleration and power with clipless pedals instead of flats. I don't understand the numbers but there is a summary of the findings stating this. I have also found some other things stating the same as me. So I don't think I am saying different to conclusive test results since if what you are saying is right then they can't be conclusive results if there is still debate can they?

supersonic

I have plenty of much more substantial papers that claim the opposite, or is insignifacnt with some riders and have posted them before.

Basically, it depends on the rider for what works best. The link you provide doesn't even say if the riders were usually clipless - in which case, they are going to be at an advantage as are more used to them!!!

Anonymous

Sigh. Since you're so adamant you want to argue about it...
I never said there was no benefit to SPDs. The benefit comes from the stiffer soles, and better interface between feet and pedals.
It was found that even the world's greatest road cyclists do not actually exert any "pull" on the pedal, but they do unweight it effectively.
Now, it's fair enough to say that just BEING a top road cyclist doesn;t mean your technique is absolutely correct, some may just have a natural talent etc. However, these guys are trained and analysed to get every last tenth of a second of performance out of them. So, it can be said with some certainty that if actually pulling the pedal up proved advantageous, then it would be trained ad trained and trained.

Google it, it's out there. And it's not just a 1-page PDF file :roll:

supersonic

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... D59Qr0WwEA

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=msdT ... st&f=false

evo3ben

I have been using flats with 5:10's for a few years and have to say the grip is brilliant!
I have now and again tried spd's but never got on with them. In all honesty i dont think i tried them for long enough.
Recently i have invested in some decent spd's and shoes as i have started to get into the race side of things. After a few rides out i got quite use to them and then a week later i was beating all my personal best times around my local routes :shock:
This came as a suprise to me and am definately going to stick with them.
Im lucky enough to have 2 chainsets, one with flats and one with the spd's so if im out doing some down hill etc i can just swap them over 8)

I cant help but look at the pro's and see they are all wearing spd's and thinking that if there was no real benifit over flats, why use them? They dont wear them for fashion or because everyone else is using them, they are using them because they are more efficiant than flats or which i have definately found out over the past few weeks.

Anonymous

you change your chainset? :shock:

supersonic

I cant help but look at the pro's and see they are all wearing spd's and thinking that if there was no real benifit over flats, why use them?

There are benefits to SOME riders. Having your foot in the same position some find beneficial. Some just like to be locked in. Some like to pull up.

The overall 'efficiency' argument does go a little further than simple 'because you can pull up', which many studies have found does not increase efficiency, power or torque.

peter413

I must be really strange then

Yeeha, what benefit are you saying they give? They don't give you any more efficiency since people think that because they teach you to spin in circles but if done on flats it's just as efficient. They do make you feel more attached to the bike as well depending on the rider but thats obvious since you are actually attached to the bike. And they do give a power increase over flats, maybe scientific tests don't show this but in the real world it's what happens (for some riders at least). My mate has been running flats for ages after being a clipless rider but we had a XC race coming up so he started using the clips on his commute again and suddenly he was wheel spinning with exactly the same tyres and conditions when he couldn't before on flats. That's obviously a power increase. Then as I've said, I accelerate a lot quicker on clips instead of flats which is why I use them.

supersonic

If it works for you, go for it: but with practice you should be able to do the same on flats.

Those links I post are interesting.

But nobody should think that you can jump on SPDs and suddenly get more torque and power.

evo3ben

Surely being able to pull up reduces the amount of presure (muscle use) on the other leg meaning that over a set distance one set of muscles are not as fatigued due to the sharing of work load. Effictively this will enable you to either go further or faster over a set distance?????

kdawg74

Good choice on the shoe's do like 5-10's but use Shimano AM40's myself with V12's with longer pins, did try spd's but crashed too much.