Where do framebuilders buy the components?
I'm currently getting set up to learn frame building with ambitions to be a frame builder and sell bikes commercially. Where do you buy components such as transmission and wheel-sets from wholesale. Would they buy direct or through a distributor? What are the margins on such items?
0
Comments
-
sounds easy - good luck with that. Most frame builders trade off the back of their time-served engineering skills and knowledge of both materials and ergonomics.
What will your USP be..?
As for groupsets - maybe try the importers.0 -
Madison for shimano stuff0
-
sounds easy - good luck with that. Most frame builders trade off the back of their time-served engineering skills and knowledge of both materials and ergonomics.
What will your USP be..?
I never said it would be easy or trivialising the profession. I'm fully aware its a highly skilled and takes years to learn. They can however be learnt and i will learn them. Everyone starts somewhere. I don't want to do it with some deluded idea its gonna make me rich. I already have my own business that pays the bills i would like to build frames because its a dying skill in UK and it would give me great pleasure.
There is a new frame building course starting in Bristol soon and i will on it.
There is no USP there will always be people who want hand-built steel bikes. [/url]0 -
Dont have a clue where you'd get stuff from. Sounds like a good idea though, good luck.
Your right, it is a dying skill but one that many people benefit greatly from. Dont listen to that burk Pseudonym, far too much negativity.
Follow your dreams, keep reaching for that rainbow. Big up yourself.0 -
You'd need to set-up a trade account with one of the distributors and demonstrate you're a bona-fide trader rather than someone trying to buy bits on the cheap for their mates. You'll need a business account and credit references too.
Discounts are based on volume and net margins are in the region of 30%
Might be worth talking to your local LBS to see if they can get you in on their deal initially rather than trying to go your own way i.e. cash-up front.
Suggest you get some experience in the bike trade too to understand how the retail / distribution model works and perhaps develop your own contacts first whilst being paid for the priviledge rather than finding out the hard way and having to pay yourself to do it.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0 -
I believe there's been quiet a few frame builders (seems to be USA) that have started later in life. Remember, every master frame maker started by never having held a hacksaw or welding torch.
Out of curiosity, can you answer yes to each of the following questions?
1. Set up a bike from scratch to professional standard (Cytech level 3)?
2. Know who to contact for parts and technical advise?
3. Sold bikes to customers?
4. Worked in a metal works/factory etc?
5. Ran a business?
If you answered "no" to most, then you'll need to spend long hours gaining skills other then welding metals. The frame making IMO is the easiest part (I am an ex welder by trade), the business and customer skills are far harder and more frustrating.
I hope you do well and succeed and I applaud you're venture. But it won't be easy.CAAD9
Kona Jake the Snake
Merlin Malt 40 -
Some sage advise here ^.
It's easy to get drawn into the thing you like doing rather than getting the right balance of running your own business - you first objective is to make a living, the second is to enjoy yourself in the process.
The reason that most small businesses go under is cash-flow - they over-commit on purchases, wages and costs and simply don't chase up the debts or make enough margin.
With a craft-based business like frame-building you could spend many hours seeking perfection which might meet your high standards, but will the customer notice and be prepared to pay the premium for the priviledge?Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0 -
dabbleonabike wrote:Your right, it is a dying skill but one that many people benefit greatly from. Dont listen to that burk Pseudonym, far too much negativity.
'burk' yourself, fella. It's realism - not 'negativity'. You can blow smoke up his arsse if you like ('reach for the rainbow' - good grief..), but if the guy ever makes a proper living from handbuilding steel frames to order, I will eat my computer. Not because he won't be up to it - he might well be - but because there is simply not enough dollar out there being spent in that end of the market, and those that do spend it are mainly buying on heritage. Breaking into it on the basis of simply going on a frame building course will be very difficult.
Like I said before though - good luck with that.0 -
I don't need to make a proper living i already make a living. I don't plane on some big operation. Just make a few frames for pleasure. If it turns out I'm good at it maybe i can sell a few. From what I've read a lot of the builders in the UK are back logged some are not taking any more orders so there must be a market, small one maybe but there is one.
Your right Pseudonym to make a living would be very difficult.0 -
From a business angle, as one of the other posters commented, you might try to gain experience in the trade by working for someone else for a few months. If you are looking to set up in certain areas of the country you might find there is some government help available for new, small, businesses,0
-
thefonz78 wrote:I don't need to make a proper living i already make a living. I don't plane on some big operation. Just make a few frames for pleasure. If it turns out I'm good at it maybe i can sell a few. From what I've read a lot of the builders in the UK are back logged some are not taking any more orders so there must be a market, small one maybe but there is one.
Your right Pseudonym to make a living would be very difficult.
A hobby is very different from a business as you well understand. I think your original post seemed to suggest making a business out of it. Oh well.
If it's a hobby/small production then you'll do very well if you have the patience and technical knowledge. There will always be a market for handmade cycles, but IMO you'll either need to be very retro or ultra modern in your approach. I think there's very limited market in the middle as you're competing against the big players.
If you're starting from scratch, why don't you try making carbon bikes? The cost of the dies and auto clave would probably be the same as tooling for steel manufacturing.CAAD9
Kona Jake the Snake
Merlin Malt 40 -
thefonz78 wrote:I don't need to make a proper living i already make a living. I don't plane on some big operation. Just make a few frames for pleasure. If it turns out I'm good at it maybe i can sell a few. From what I've read a lot of the builders in the UK are back logged some are not taking any more orders so there must be a market, small one maybe but there is one.
Your right Pseudonym to make a living would be very difficult.
my apologies mate - I got the impression that you were planning on making a living from it.0 -
Commercially was maybe misleading . It does really look like its hard to make any money. You would need public liability insurance. I think your bikes need to be safety tested too. All sounds very expensive.
I was a keen surfer when i was younger and thinner. I remembered that surfboard shapers would shape blanks for surf shops to brand. You could possible do something like that for bikes. LBS offers custom built bike with there branding. They or you measure up the customer. You make the bike frame branded for the shop, shop supply's the components. Thats a not bad USP is this kind of thing been done before?0 -
If you're starting from scratch, why don't you try making carbon bikes?
Well from reading the threads on here the chinese carbon frames and on ebay for £200 are good. Buy them in in bulk you get the price down further. You couldn't buy the material cheaper.0 -
thefonz78 wrote:LBS offers custom built bike with there branding. They or you measure up the customer. You make the bike frame branded for the shop, shop supply's the components. Thats a not bad USP is this kind of thing been done before?
plenty of shops did that with steel frames back in the day, so yes, it has been done before...0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALNsQpCL8LY
Listen to Norman Taylor at about 05:50 in.0 -
Do it for the love of it and see where it takes you. Every encouragement and don't listin to the Mystic Negs!!0
-
Also try this forum. Mostly North American readers but quite a few brits on here too. Plenty of good info. http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay. ... mebuilders0
-
thefonz78 wrote:I'm currently getting set up to learn frame building with ambitions to be a frame builder and sell bikes commercially. Where do you buy components such as transmission and wheel-sets from wholesale. Would they buy direct or through a distributor? What are the margins on such items?
If you want to be a Frame builder why do you need any components?
why tie up capital in stuff that changes every year?
If you want to build bikes they buy from China/Taiwan direct and save yourself the hassle.
If you want a few parts to make a frame ridable then talk to the distributors."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Yes it is difficult to make sense of the OP, but if you are interested in frame building then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWbMNV8YSrQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXxJj28lnZE
http://www.flickr.com/photos/engincycles/
Listen to Dave Yates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=iw&v=0gb6TKNqS9Q0
